[editing to add: apologies in advance for what might be my longest post ever.]

I’ve been watching the Lakeland revival for a long time now. Long enough that when it’s not on, it seems strange to watch “other” shows that were normal for us prior to revival. The revival’s been happening now for something like 112 days, and we’ve probably watched 90-95 of them. We’ve missed a few nights due to travel, and some due to church or family events. One thing that I like about it is that it’s really not about Todd Bentley. Nights he’s not there are just as good as when he’s there. We’ve been introduced to a number of preachers we’d never heard of. I’ve greatly enjoyed the preaching of Roy Fields (yes, the worship leader), Bobby Conner, and Steven Strader, and quite a few of the other Fresh Fire affiliates.

As an aside…Another thing I like is that the music is not always that great (to my ear, anyway) but that the focus is never on the musicians, not on the worship leader, it’s on Jesus and that profound sense of worship, and the anointing, are present regardless of who’s at the keyboard and whether that last note was in key (no one seems to care because their focus is above :) )

Anyways… our current favorite preacher is the guy who’s ministered the last two nights – Ryan Wyatt of Abiding Glory Ministries in Knoxville, TN. He’s very bright and biblically spot-on, but also funny. He’s not afraid to dish it back to the heresy hunters either :) . He’s made some comments about the occult that I’m not so sure about – but I’ll tell you something that I’ve not said before. I’m learning not to say, “That’s not so”… and instead say, “That’s not been my experience, nor the experience of those I’ve ministered to.” More on that later.

Ryan’s done a lot of preaching the last two nights. The man’s a whirlwind. Some of his points sum up to this – we’re not living up to our potential in the Kingdom. I know that’s probably not news to anybody – but I’d like to examine some Scripture and address some core beliefs in the church, and then invite readers to comment. Some of what is below is straight from Ryan, and some of it’s my own ruminations. Since I’ve spent much of the last two days and nights pondering what he said, it’ll be awfully difficult to sort out what’s “his” and what’s “mine” – we can just assign it all to the Lord, for His glory, and not worry about human inspirations. :D Also note that I’m not trying in any way to summarize all that he said, because he made a lot of other great points.

Here’s a good snippet on youtube of Ryan preaching, and what I’m about to talk about…

Point # 1 – Jesus didn’t preach a gospel of salvation. He preached the gospel of the Kingdom.

That one just comes and smacks you upside the head. “The gospel of the Kingdom” is a direct quote from Matthew 9:35 (I just found it – not sure if Ryan referenced it or not).

Jesus began His ministry by saying, “Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17) and as He went, He preached salvation… and healing, and cleansing, and deliverance, and resurrection from the dead, and provision, and and and

Why have we utterly lost track of, “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons.” (Matthew 10:8).

Salvation is necessary and what I’m about to say should not be taken to diminish that grace and gift of God in any way… but the Bible is clear that salvation is not the sum total of our inheritance from God.

Point #2 – Jesus came so that we could become sons of God.

Romans 8:14 says, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are SONS OF GOD.” (emphasis in caps is mine) and then in verse 16 and following, the indisputable word of God says, “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs – heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ…”

Woah. What’s that mean? But wait – there’s more. Galatians 4 says that in the fullness of time, God sent Jesus to redeem us, “that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” (emphasis mine)

Point #3 – If Jesus inherited the Kingdom of God (Hebrews 1:4), and we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, then WE ALSO inherit the Kingdom. Right along with Him.

The Holy Ghost lives within us. Our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit. That means we carry the literal presence of God within us everywhere that we go. We carry our inheritance with us everywhere we go. No matter what situation we find ourselves in, we’re the heirs of God and He’s right there with us.

So why do we have such little effect on the world around us?

Point #4 – Salvation is only the beginning of what God wants to give us.

This hearkens back to point #1, but I wanted to bring out the other points first. If the gospel of salvation is the only good news preached (and it is indeed good news), it becomes rather like going to Disney and entering into the kingdom through the gates… but never getting on any of the rides, never hanging out with Mickey Mouse, never eating the funnel cakes… just sitting within the gates, doing nothing.

Point #5 – If the Gospel is, indeed, more than salvation, why isn’t the church living in that reality?

I’ve had conversations back and forth for a couple of years with a friend (who can comment and tell her story if she likes – I don’t have her permission to) who was very hurt when God did not heal someone important to her. The central question is, “If healing really is part of the atonement, then why doesn’t God always heal?” – which ultimately has led my friend to question the validity of the Bible and trustworthiness of God.

My answers over the years have ranged from speaking of the natural (since not everyone’s healed, since sin introduced sickness and death into the world) to sovereignty (since God is not our puppet, and since everyone dies a physical death).

I’m currently questioning that thinking – even with my own illness (see my last post).

The Bible says, “Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases, Who redeems your life from destruction, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and tender mercies, Who satisfies your mouth with good things, so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.” (Psalm 103) Why is it that Christians are willing to accept the reality of forgiveness (He doesn’t pick and choose which sins He forgives, does He? No! He forgives ALL.) and willing to accept redemption, lovingkindness and tender mercies… but don’t accept that the Bible really does say that God HEALS ALL OUR DISEASES?

I do see in the Bible that there’s a couple of examples of people not being healed… Paul, from whatever his thorn in the side was – but God communicated that to him. Trophimus was left in Miletus, sick. Was he, perhaps, our forerunner?

Perhaps it’s because the church has preached the gospel of salvation ONLY for so long that we don’t lay claim to our inheritance.

The Bible also says, “But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our inquities, The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.” Again – we’re willing to accept His wounding and bruising for our sins – why not His whipping for our healing?

I think it’s because it’s become so ingrained in our minds – even in the minds of people who KNOW and ACCEPT that healing is part of the atonement – that this inheritance is not really ours. We own it, we possess it… but we never DO anything with it. We enter into the gates of the Kingdom, but we never access any of the Kingdom’s benefits.

It’s all right for Jesus to have healed the sick and raised the dead. After all, He’s Jesus. It’s all right for the apostles to have done those things – after all, they were directly commissioned by Jesus. (But weren’t we all? Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-20)

But the Bible says that God’s no respecter of persons. The Bible says we’re joint heirs with Christ. The Bible says that we’re sons of God. Jesus Himself commissioned us to do the work of the Kingdom.

So why, exactly, are we powerless when we should be powerful?

Is it because God’s word is untrue? Is it because there really is no power? (NO!)

I think it’s because even though we’re supposed to be the children of the Most High (with all the attendant privilege and responsibility thereof), we still live like we’re homeless people.

I know that a lot of people will have a hard time relating to what I’m about to say (and so I’ll say it another way, in a moment)… I use “homeless” for a reason. I was homeless once. I lived on the streets of Bangor, Maine for a season. It wasn’t a long time – just a few months – but I was young, and it made an impression on me that I occasionally still find myself face to face with.

Some terrible things happened to me… I went hungry. I was cold. I was sick. I was raped out there. I literally had the clothes on my back and nothing else.

As a result of the experience, once I began living in a normal place again, I had a very hard time. There was a bathroom with a toilet and shower in it. I didn’t need to worry about danger there. I could pee in that toilet any time I liked. I could take an hour long shower if I wanted to. It was mine. But what did I do? For about a year after I had a place to stay, I was in and out of that bathroom in ten seconds flat. Even though it was mine – it really wasn’t mine. Somewhere deep inside, it took me a long time to accept ownership of that thing.

Another way to look at it – most of my readers can likely relate to this. I haven’t had the impression that anyone who reads this blog is filthy rich – we’re mostly lower to middle class working folks. What would happen if we were suddenly transported out of our lifestyle where we have to pinch pennies and we were dropped into a mansion, complete with servants, polished silver and china to eat from, sparkling chandeliers and enough money to do anything we wanted, any time we wanted? I’m betting that most of us would take a long time to get used to it. Sure, we could settle into some things – but how comfortable would we be in that role? I know I sure wouldn’t be comfortable for a long time. For starters, I’m just more comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt drinking coffee out of a chipped ceramic mug than I am in manicured nails drinking tea from porcelain. If my entire outfit, head to toe, counting shoes, costs more than $20 I’m not comfortable. While I’m sure that if I suddenly became wealthy that I might choose to buy new clothes, there ain’t no way I’m buying Prada. Know what I mean? Secondly, I’m sure that for a very long time I would have a fear of what I had suddenly disappearing (the same thing happened after I got a home, after being out on the streets). I was terrified to use what I had, lest I come to depend on it, and it disappear.

Is this the way the church views the Gospel? Has salvation-only become so ingrained in our psyche (like homelessness) that we aren’t ABLE to enjoy our full inheritance? And we’re even so wobbly about salvation itself that it’s easy to go to extremes – to take it for granted or as a license to sin, or to condemn ourselves for past wrongs that God’s forgotten about.

So what if my sickness has nothing to do with God’s sovereignty? What if God really wants to heal me, just like He promised (and God cannot lie)? Maybe we’re not seeing mass healings and resurrections from the dead and deliverances because even though we give intellectual assent to the possibility, we really don’t believe? Maybe it’s because we, as a body of believers and as individuals, have so fixated on what we can “prove” that the only “unprovable” thing we’ll believe is salvation? (Just ask yer average Christian about the supernatural – they’ll either tell you that it’s heresy or that it doesn’t exist)

What do we need to do, to break loose from this unbelief (Lord, I believe – help my unbelief!)… what do we need to do, to truly live out the reality of being sons and heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ, carriers of His manifest presence everywhere we go…. ?

More on that, I guess, in my next post.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Kathi, long post but bottom line is, its never our will but God’s will. The one thing that caught my eye was on healing. We have to realize the healing may not manifest itself in our bodies here, it may not happen until the Lord takes us home. Some people do have a problem with that.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Kathi, long post but bottom line is, its never our will but God’s will. The one thing that caught my eye was on healing. We have to realize the healing may not manifest itself in our bodies here, it may not happen until the Lord takes us home. Some people do have a problem with that.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Rev, here’s my question about healing not manifesting now, but in the hereafter: Where does the Bible say it?

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Rev, here’s my question about healing not manifesting now, but in the hereafter: Where does the Bible say it?

  • Ron Larson

    I listened to some of the meetings in Lakeland two nights ago and quite honestly I do agree that we are not living up to our potential and what we have received in Christ provided by His death, burial and resurrection. Istillmaintain, that by the profound lack of documentation that most of this is over-hyped. Not one confirmation of any sort that any one person has been resurrected from the dead because of the gospel that Bentley and others have been teaching. Not one. This has been promulgated and testified to by Bentley and others on the paltform. Why then, are those that are concerned theologically and with the character issues of those applauding and supporting this called heresy hunters, when we bring up the fact that scripture states that a wicked and perverse genreation seeks after sign and wonders. And people are there just for that I believe. Why? Because the message of wholeness doctrinally and personal holiness is sorrowfully missing in the vast majority of Bentley’s messages in my opinion. AMnay times when he “preaches” it’s beena cursory mention of a scripture often misaplied (sp?), or a prophetic utternace that is again, in my opinion quite manipulative. We still have had no repentance or mention of Wendy Alec’s failed prophecy of the physical manefistation of Jesus, nor have we heard of any correction when the leaders mentioned how dynamic things would become in the Spirit fromm the weeks of June 22-July 22. Pretty much the dame boisterous tales, and inverifiable healongs, and an obsession with “manefistations” with meetings that have little oversight, or so it appears. While I agreed with some of the teachings and the truth that we are not living up to our expectations, we also need someone to correct Todd that if he believes his faith is moving God, then Todd wheres’ the evidence, where;s the humility,a nd where are those that have oversight of this bringing correction to you? Lastly if I may, again we have another leader on the platform claiming he has been visited by Chirst in his hotle room, and pronouncing that he has been deemed an overcomer, or something to that extent. How do we, or fact that matter how does Ryan know it was Jesus? Because Ryan says so? Was it Christ glorified, because quite honestly you can’t stand or probably do much in his presence. And then the “oil” thing comes up. Again how do we, or how are we supposed to beleive this when scripture never mentions this anywhere whether Paul, Pater whether in the Upper Room, or John’s vision on the Isle of Patmos. I am open to correction on this.

    Ron Larson

  • Ron Larson

    I listened to some of the meetings in Lakeland two nights ago and quite honestly I do agree that we are not living up to our potential and what we have received in Christ provided by His death, burial and resurrection. Istillmaintain, that by the profound lack of documentation that most of this is over-hyped. Not one confirmation of any sort that any one person has been resurrected from the dead because of the gospel that Bentley and others have been teaching. Not one. This has been promulgated and testified to by Bentley and others on the paltform. Why then, are those that are concerned theologically and with the character issues of those applauding and supporting this called heresy hunters, when we bring up the fact that scripture states that a wicked and perverse genreation seeks after sign and wonders. And people are there just for that I believe. Why? Because the message of wholeness doctrinally and personal holiness is sorrowfully missing in the vast majority of Bentley’s messages in my opinion. AMnay times when he “preaches” it’s beena cursory mention of a scripture often misaplied (sp?), or a prophetic utternace that is again, in my opinion quite manipulative. We still have had no repentance or mention of Wendy Alec’s failed prophecy of the physical manefistation of Jesus, nor have we heard of any correction when the leaders mentioned how dynamic things would become in the Spirit fromm the weeks of June 22-July 22. Pretty much the dame boisterous tales, and inverifiable healongs, and an obsession with “manefistations” with meetings that have little oversight, or so it appears. While I agreed with some of the teachings and the truth that we are not living up to our expectations, we also need someone to correct Todd that if he believes his faith is moving God, then Todd wheres’ the evidence, where;s the humility,a nd where are those that have oversight of this bringing correction to you? Lastly if I may, again we have another leader on the platform claiming he has been visited by Chirst in his hotle room, and pronouncing that he has been deemed an overcomer, or something to that extent. How do we, or fact that matter how does Ryan know it was Jesus? Because Ryan says so? Was it Christ glorified, because quite honestly you can’t stand or probably do much in his presence. And then the “oil” thing comes up. Again how do we, or how are we supposed to beleive this when scripture never mentions this anywhere whether Paul, Pater whether in the Upper Room, or John’s vision on the Isle of Patmos. I am open to correction on this.

    Ron Larson

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    I should probably add an addendum to what I wrote, because it could arguably be said that I’m implying that our lack of healing is a lack of faith. That’s not what I’m saying. I think the church and individuals therein have plenty of faith in God. We may even have faith that He heals, delivers, raises.

    We just don’t believe that it’ll happen to us or to those we pray for. We’ve conditioned ourselves to accept so much less, that we don’t really press in to receive what He’s offering to us.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    I should probably add an addendum to what I wrote, because it could arguably be said that I’m implying that our lack of healing is a lack of faith. That’s not what I’m saying. I think the church and individuals therein have plenty of faith in God. We may even have faith that He heals, delivers, raises.

    We just don’t believe that it’ll happen to us or to those we pray for. We’ve conditioned ourselves to accept so much less, that we don’t really press in to receive what He’s offering to us.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Kathi, when we die our spirit will go on to the Lord so that we will not take sickness with us and since the flesh is what carries the sickness, and flesh won’t enter into heaven, so we are healed then. there is no place that would actually say what I commented on that I can find right now, but will dig more. Our spirit man moves on.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Kathi, when we die our spirit will go on to the Lord so that we will not take sickness with us and since the flesh is what carries the sickness, and flesh won’t enter into heaven, so we are healed then. there is no place that would actually say what I commented on that I can find right now, but will dig more. Our spirit man moves on.

  • Donna

    We just don’t believe that it’ll happen to us or to those we pray for. We’ve conditioned ourselves to accept so much less, that we don’t really press in to receive what He’s offering to us.

    Ohhhh Kathi – I haven’t read your initial post yet, but spotted this. Huh, well now I’m really confused. Do I dare read more…

  • Donna

    We just don’t believe that it’ll happen to us or to those we pray for. We’ve conditioned ourselves to accept so much less, that we don’t really press in to receive what He’s offering to us.

    Ohhhh Kathi – I haven’t read your initial post yet, but spotted this. Huh, well now I’m really confused. Do I dare read more…

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Donna I have prayed for people and they have been healed. I have prayed for some and they have not been healed. I do know that we especially here in this county must have faith that what we pray will happen. I have faith that people will be healed when I pray, but the person you pray for must have the same measure of faith to believe they can be healed. There is proof of the healing I have received when prayed for. I believed it would be and it has.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Donna I have prayed for people and they have been healed. I have prayed for some and they have not been healed. I do know that we especially here in this county must have faith that what we pray will happen. I have faith that people will be healed when I pray, but the person you pray for must have the same measure of faith to believe they can be healed. There is proof of the healing I have received when prayed for. I believed it would be and it has.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    #Ron – what’ll it take to get you to use paragraphs, brother?

    #Donna – I’m not sure what you’ll think of what I’ve posted.

    To be honest, I’m not sure what *I* think of what I’ve posted. I just know what the Bible says, and I believe the Bible to be true, and that’s where what the Bible says has led me.

    #Rev – I agree that in heaven we’ll have no sickness or disease. But was God talking about us experiencing that *only* at some future point? (And if so, our state before God in the present moment is not righteous, because that, too, will only come when we get there.)

    And if God was saying that we’ll experience that ONLY at some future point, why was a primary ministry of Jesus and the apostles (and today) healing in the immediate, temporal, flesh sense?

    I know where you’re going, and I’ve said that same thing before. I’m just no longer sure I agree with that premise. Again – based on what the Bible says. Not my own experiences.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    #Ron – what’ll it take to get you to use paragraphs, brother?

    #Donna – I’m not sure what you’ll think of what I’ve posted.

    To be honest, I’m not sure what *I* think of what I’ve posted. I just know what the Bible says, and I believe the Bible to be true, and that’s where what the Bible says has led me.

    #Rev – I agree that in heaven we’ll have no sickness or disease. But was God talking about us experiencing that *only* at some future point? (And if so, our state before God in the present moment is not righteous, because that, too, will only come when we get there.)

    And if God was saying that we’ll experience that ONLY at some future point, why was a primary ministry of Jesus and the apostles (and today) healing in the immediate, temporal, flesh sense?

    I know where you’re going, and I’ve said that same thing before. I’m just no longer sure I agree with that premise. Again – based on what the Bible says. Not my own experiences.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Rev, on your last post – I’ve had the experience where I had faith that God could heal me, and I’m as sure as I can be that the people praying for me had faith.

    But I’m not sure that any of us believed that I would actually get up out of that wheelchair and dance.

    But – conversely to my own theory, perhaps, I’m not sure that I had any different faith on the day that I did start dancing, and experienced healing. But I had decided that I wanted God more than I wanted healing, and that my faith in Him and love for Him wouldn’t change or waver whether He healed me or not. So, maybe it did change. Hmmm.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Rev, on your last post – I’ve had the experience where I had faith that God could heal me, and I’m as sure as I can be that the people praying for me had faith.

    But I’m not sure that any of us believed that I would actually get up out of that wheelchair and dance.

    But – conversely to my own theory, perhaps, I’m not sure that I had any different faith on the day that I did start dancing, and experienced healing. But I had decided that I wanted God more than I wanted healing, and that my faith in Him and love for Him wouldn’t change or waver whether He healed me or not. So, maybe it did change. Hmmm.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Kathi, I know you have been healed and I know I have in the flesh of us. I guess we will just have to wait until the day comes that Jesus takes us home to know the completeness of his word. We live in a world where people want to see the things of God still done, but I believe the level of faith is what stops most of the things God wants done.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Kathi, I know you have been healed and I know I have in the flesh of us. I guess we will just have to wait until the day comes that Jesus takes us home to know the completeness of his word. We live in a world where people want to see the things of God still done, but I believe the level of faith is what stops most of the things God wants done.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Hey Ron… listen (again). Jesus showed up to me, in a dream. That’s what led me to salvation.

    When a Christian leader says that they saw Jesus, I tend to believe that they really saw Him. Sometimes in dreams, sometimes in visions, and sometimes in the flesh (like, wow, just like it happened in the Bible!)

    The accounts of people being raised from the dead and healed in this revival are many. Even the secular media’s reported some of it, but you’re right – not much. (Do you really have to wonder why? If they admit that Jesus heals, they’d be admitting He’s God and if so, then His other claims must be true…) I haven’t seen the shows, but my understanding is that the 700 Club has several good interviews on the subject.

    Have you considered, too, that maybe most Christians aren’t willing to get sacrificed by the media and the heresy hunters?

    A wicked and perverse generation seeks signs and wonders – but what of the people who are seeking God and His glory… fully knowing that when He shows up in His glory, that stuff happens, people see angels, fall down on the floor, healings and miracles happen, shouting and dancing happens, resurrection happens, salvation happens. Revival happens.

    If God showed up and nothing at all happened and people had no reaction beyond “Oh. It’s You.” … well, if I was God, I’d be hitting that “smite” button on my keyboard. He’s a bit more longsuffering than me…

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Hey Ron… listen (again). Jesus showed up to me, in a dream. That’s what led me to salvation.

    When a Christian leader says that they saw Jesus, I tend to believe that they really saw Him. Sometimes in dreams, sometimes in visions, and sometimes in the flesh (like, wow, just like it happened in the Bible!)

    The accounts of people being raised from the dead and healed in this revival are many. Even the secular media’s reported some of it, but you’re right – not much. (Do you really have to wonder why? If they admit that Jesus heals, they’d be admitting He’s God and if so, then His other claims must be true…) I haven’t seen the shows, but my understanding is that the 700 Club has several good interviews on the subject.

    Have you considered, too, that maybe most Christians aren’t willing to get sacrificed by the media and the heresy hunters?

    A wicked and perverse generation seeks signs and wonders – but what of the people who are seeking God and His glory… fully knowing that when He shows up in His glory, that stuff happens, people see angels, fall down on the floor, healings and miracles happen, shouting and dancing happens, resurrection happens, salvation happens. Revival happens.

    If God showed up and nothing at all happened and people had no reaction beyond “Oh. It’s You.” … well, if I was God, I’d be hitting that “smite” button on my keyboard. He’s a bit more longsuffering than me…

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Rev, I don’t disagree with you about a level of faith being necessary most of the time.

    I’m just not sure the Bible supports us having to wait for Kingdom Come… aren’t we living in the Kingdom now? Aren’t we sons of God and heirs?

    Didn’t Jesus say that WE could speak to the mountain and cast in the sea?

    So maybe it comes down to this – do we believe Jesus, or do we believe our experiences thus far?

    (BTW, I’m not pretending to have all the answers to this. Maybe there’s another side, other factors, other Scripture, that I haven’t considered ???)

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Rev, I don’t disagree with you about a level of faith being necessary most of the time.

    I’m just not sure the Bible supports us having to wait for Kingdom Come… aren’t we living in the Kingdom now? Aren’t we sons of God and heirs?

    Didn’t Jesus say that WE could speak to the mountain and cast in the sea?

    So maybe it comes down to this – do we believe Jesus, or do we believe our experiences thus far?

    (BTW, I’m not pretending to have all the answers to this. Maybe there’s another side, other factors, other Scripture, that I haven’t considered ???)

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    I remember the CNN reporter, Peter Arnat(sp) said he wants to cover the Armagedon(sp). I said won’t that be something to see the prophets walking and being interviewed and then seeing them lying dead on the streets. If that wouldn’t shake peoples foundation.

    Second, Jesus said know one knows the day of his return. Nothing ever said about the father. I know I have seen and felt the presence of God in dreams and visions.

    I again don’t doubt that people are getting something from the revivals. I have said what I don’t feel is of God, but we have to remember, people are searching and they must allow themselves to see does it line up with the word.

    Kathi, again, your faith had to be strong to believe you could get up and dance. Again when I was told when I had the heart attack in 1993, what man said I would go through and my faith said no and I believed that God would rise me out the hospital to do his will and he did. Sometimes we let our minds overide our faith.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    I remember the CNN reporter, Peter Arnat(sp) said he wants to cover the Armagedon(sp). I said won’t that be something to see the prophets walking and being interviewed and then seeing them lying dead on the streets. If that wouldn’t shake peoples foundation.

    Second, Jesus said know one knows the day of his return. Nothing ever said about the father. I know I have seen and felt the presence of God in dreams and visions.

    I again don’t doubt that people are getting something from the revivals. I have said what I don’t feel is of God, but we have to remember, people are searching and they must allow themselves to see does it line up with the word.

    Kathi, again, your faith had to be strong to believe you could get up and dance. Again when I was told when I had the heart attack in 1993, what man said I would go through and my faith said no and I believed that God would rise me out the hospital to do his will and he did. Sometimes we let our minds overide our faith.

  • Donna

    I should probably add an addendum to what I wrote, because it could arguably be said that I’m implying that our lack of healing is a lack of faith.

    We just don’t believe that it’ll happen to us or to those we pray for.

    ********************************

    Kathi, I fail to see the difference? If the lack of healing is because “we just don’t believe”, well is this not a lack of faith??

    From what I see in your post you would now be in agreement with my old church and their assumptions of me and my situation. I remember your reaction when I first told you the story 2 yrs ago. It’s like I said to you a few weeks ago, time sure changes things.

    Rev, I was shown not long ago that in the bible even those that were not believers and had little to no faith were yet still healed.

    Does anyone know truth? I think not.

  • Donna

    I should probably add an addendum to what I wrote, because it could arguably be said that I’m implying that our lack of healing is a lack of faith.

    We just don’t believe that it’ll happen to us or to those we pray for.

    ********************************

    Kathi, I fail to see the difference? If the lack of healing is because “we just don’t believe”, well is this not a lack of faith??

    From what I see in your post you would now be in agreement with my old church and their assumptions of me and my situation. I remember your reaction when I first told you the story 2 yrs ago. It’s like I said to you a few weeks ago, time sure changes things.

    Rev, I was shown not long ago that in the bible even those that were not believers and had little to no faith were yet still healed.

    Does anyone know truth? I think not.

  • Ron Larson

    Sorry about th lack of paragraphs….

    I will try and do better if and when I post…

    Again.

  • Ron Larson

    Sorry about th lack of paragraphs….

    I will try and do better if and when I post…

    Again.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Donna, when God healed me of heart condition, diabetis and acid reflux all at the same time, it was my faith that carried me. To believe that it could happen. Remember Jesus did the healing and he is God. The healing I believe in those days were to help others with their faith and for Jesus to show the world he was the Messiah.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Donna, when God healed me of heart condition, diabetis and acid reflux all at the same time, it was my faith that carried me. To believe that it could happen. Remember Jesus did the healing and he is God. The healing I believe in those days were to help others with their faith and for Jesus to show the world he was the Messiah.

  • Donna

    Sorry Rev, I’m not buying it. There are people who’s complete and unwavering faith has brought them nothing but despair.
    And are you saying that at one time God allowed someone healing to help their faith and the faith of others around them, but he does not allow for this today? I thought Jesus was the same yesterday, today, and forever??
    And what about praying for loved ones that are not Christian – with this theory Rev there’d be no sense in praying for them, at least not for their healing. Have you ever prayed for a sick and unsaved loved one?
    Another thing, and this is not directed at you Rev, how do these word of faith people know how much faith a person holds in their heart when they pray for a healing and don’t receive it? And do they realize how many lives they destroy when they so loosely throw around the words, “You didn’t have enough faith.”?!
    Sorry, but I think it’s a bunch of crap!
    Kathi, I’m still waiting for you to explain the difference between not believing and lack of faith.

  • Donna

    Sorry Rev, I’m not buying it. There are people who’s complete and unwavering faith has brought them nothing but despair.
    And are you saying that at one time God allowed someone healing to help their faith and the faith of others around them, but he does not allow for this today? I thought Jesus was the same yesterday, today, and forever??
    And what about praying for loved ones that are not Christian – with this theory Rev there’d be no sense in praying for them, at least not for their healing. Have you ever prayed for a sick and unsaved loved one?
    Another thing, and this is not directed at you Rev, how do these word of faith people know how much faith a person holds in their heart when they pray for a healing and don’t receive it? And do they realize how many lives they destroy when they so loosely throw around the words, “You didn’t have enough faith.”?!
    Sorry, but I think it’s a bunch of crap!
    Kathi, I’m still waiting for you to explain the difference between not believing and lack of faith.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Donna we are all given a measure of Faith. Its up to the individual to exercise it or just let it lay around and not use it. What I was trying to say to you is that, Jesus healed people in those days as did the Apostles. I don’t believe it was their faith as much as it was the Lord himself. Remember the woman with the issue of Blood, she said if I could but touch the hem of his garment I would be healed. The Centurian had great faith and his servant was healed. If you believe God can heal you, then that is your faith that you are exercising. If you say I have faith to believe I can be healed then you can. If I saw the Lord heal someone and I doubted it could happen, but then with my eyes saw it happen, then thats what would help me to build up my faith. I might have said it wrong above. He told the woman with the issue of blood, your faith has made you whole. If you had a disease, wouldn’t that statement help you to have faith that you could be healed. I know of pastors that say because of lack of faith things don’t happen. I would rather say like Jesus that people will perish because of lack of knowledge. Lack of faith would to me be, The Lord healed my tooth ache, but can he heal my heart condition. In a sense that is not believing what Jesus said he would do, that he has already done. And though not directed at me about word of faith people Know one knows your heart Donna but you and God himself. I believe that some people will see healing here on earth and some for only God knows, will go home with Jesus and it never manefested. Case in point and I know this is long, but hold on. We knew a young girl who had a serious head injury along with brain damage. She graduated with my daughter and I know the family and my church, her church and many others prayed for her to be healed. the young lady was born again and sold out to Christ. She died, why, I believe that Jesus timing is never our timing and his was are never our ways. But I and this is me not saying for anyone else, I believe right after her last breath was taken here on earth she was in the presence of the Lord, worshiping and loving him, with a new body, without sickness. To tell someone they don’t have enought faith, bad words to use as we never know what the Lords plans are.

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Donna we are all given a measure of Faith. Its up to the individual to exercise it or just let it lay around and not use it. What I was trying to say to you is that, Jesus healed people in those days as did the Apostles. I don’t believe it was their faith as much as it was the Lord himself. Remember the woman with the issue of Blood, she said if I could but touch the hem of his garment I would be healed. The Centurian had great faith and his servant was healed. If you believe God can heal you, then that is your faith that you are exercising. If you say I have faith to believe I can be healed then you can. If I saw the Lord heal someone and I doubted it could happen, but then with my eyes saw it happen, then thats what would help me to build up my faith. I might have said it wrong above. He told the woman with the issue of blood, your faith has made you whole. If you had a disease, wouldn’t that statement help you to have faith that you could be healed. I know of pastors that say because of lack of faith things don’t happen. I would rather say like Jesus that people will perish because of lack of knowledge. Lack of faith would to me be, The Lord healed my tooth ache, but can he heal my heart condition. In a sense that is not believing what Jesus said he would do, that he has already done. And though not directed at me about word of faith people Know one knows your heart Donna but you and God himself. I believe that some people will see healing here on earth and some for only God knows, will go home with Jesus and it never manefested. Case in point and I know this is long, but hold on. We knew a young girl who had a serious head injury along with brain damage. She graduated with my daughter and I know the family and my church, her church and many others prayed for her to be healed. the young lady was born again and sold out to Christ. She died, why, I believe that Jesus timing is never our timing and his was are never our ways. But I and this is me not saying for anyone else, I believe right after her last breath was taken here on earth she was in the presence of the Lord, worshiping and loving him, with a new body, without sickness. To tell someone they don’t have enought faith, bad words to use as we never know what the Lords plans are.

  • Ichabod

    “A wicked and perverse generation seeks signs and wonders…”

    Called “proof” by some…

  • Ichabod

    “A wicked and perverse generation seeks signs and wonders…”

    Called “proof” by some…

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Now are the wicked and perverse generation save or unsaved Ichabod

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    Now are the wicked and perverse generation save or unsaved Ichabod

  • Ichabod

    “Now are the wicked and perverse generation save or unsaved Ichabod”

    Well, since most would say I’m wicked & perverse any answer I’d give would be biased, wouldn’t it? :)

  • Ichabod

    “Now are the wicked and perverse generation save or unsaved Ichabod”

    Well, since most would say I’m wicked & perverse any answer I’d give would be biased, wouldn’t it? :)

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Kay Sharpe


I'm a laid-down lover of Jesus Christ. I write about my King and His Kingdom, the Bible, revival, healing, prophecy, faith, and more... plus I throw in recipes, tips, news and politics items, reviews, and all sorts of random things just for fun. Until recently, I was known as "Kathi"... but my name is now Kay. It's a good, God thing... :) The opinions expressed in this blog are mine and mine only - not necessarily shared by my husband, our church, my employers, or anyone else.

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