Vision & Lakeland Thougts @ Realms of Glory

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Sep 182008
 

Kelly says in her prelude, ” All I can say is WOW!” – I concur!! She had an awesome vision of what it is to be clothed in righteousness and why we don’t see ourselves as such.

She also tackles her thoughts about Lakeland now that some of the dust has settled – GOOD stuff there.

Kelly, if you read this – thank you for being such an encourager to the Body of Christ!

 Posted by Kathi at 9:16 am  Tagged with: ,
  • http://www.realmsofglory.wordpress.com Kelly

    Hey Kathie,
    Ditto! It’s a God thang ;)

  • Rev Frederick G Merry

    We should all be in prayer for TB, but I caution everyone that it should be completed this time before he returns to the pulpit. the danger of not having the counseling completed will allow what happend to him to happen again. God is the God of completeness. I pray he is seeking proper help this time around. If he was as was stated still being counseled for the first time of infidelity in his marriage, he should never had been allow to start the revival. this doesn’t just rest on his shoulders but those who were counseling him. They should have said no your not ready to leave home and to be preaching yet. thats the danger of being no released properly. Yes God can still move even if the messenger is in sin as its the Spirit of God, not of man. Trouble is for new converts from this, what damage was done and who to pick up the pieces

  • Donna

    I’m really not saying this to start any problems, but it’s been on my mind for quite awhile.
    Would so many people be as forgiving, and looking for ways to distribute the blame if it were just a regular church goer sitting in a pew on Sundays and not TB?
    I feel that there is an awful lot of people gone to bat for him – stating why those working over him, those working under him, and even those counseling him are at fault. And then there’s the circumstance of being away from home and the intense temptations, this is where the fault lies. And the latest that I’ve seen, the devil was bent on destroying the revival, this must be the reason.
    Geez, so many reasons! If it were you or me wouldn’t WE just plain be at fault?? I mean, isn’t he a grown man with common sense of his own?
    I’m certainly not saying there should be no forgiveness, but why do people seem to not want to face the fact that he’s just a man and he screwed up big time?!
    When it all comes down to it it’s his fault and no one elses.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Donna, I can’t speak for any church other than ours – where we dealt with a somewhat similar situation with a “regular church goer” not that long ago.

    Of course TB is just plain at fault – as was the guy at our church – but Jesus loves sinners and longs to restore people to Him.

    The devil was bent on destroying the revival, but he didn’t succeed.

  • Rev Merry

    Donna when your a Pastor and you fall, you need to go through a time of refreshing and couseling. When those who are couseling feel after a period of time you have repented and asked for forgiveness then go back preaching. Yes TB holds alot of the fault for what he did. Matter of fact he knew his weekness and shouldn’t have put himself in the positon to do it again. But on a note from being a Pastor, those who were counseling him should have advised him from doing the revival. But in the end, yes the main fault falls on TB

  • http://www.realmsofglory.wordpress.com Kelly

    Since this originated with my post…

    I have seen this happen all over the place and upside down. I have seen gifted men fall etc. But may I add something that I have seen. While the men in sin did commit the sin of free will, there was a devilish stew mixing up for temptation etc.

    Todd BETTER get counseling and get this straightened out! I don’t know where people think just because you lift a brother up that you don’t think he should not be straightened out!

    And, just my opinion, some new believers have just come out of the world ;) . I don’t think they will be too shocked to find out men are men christian or not and we all fall short. If Todd is restored, new believers will learn more from that than anything we can say or do, it gives them hope.

    The new babies are in God’s hands and that is what pastor’s are for if additional insight is needed. They don’t have the terminology bouncing baby for nothing!

    And again, see David, Solomon with the gobs of wives, see Samson etc… What did God do with them. That is the standard we must reach and in His wisdom follow through with.

    TB is an extremely gifted man, God didn’t up and leave him just because of this.

    A sin is a sin is a sin. There are no seven deadly sins, it is all sin. What about that download of music from a friend. Or the paperclip from work. Is your foot a little heavy on the gas pedal? God doesn’t just up and leave you for a stolen paperclip or pencil. And don’t think He doesn’t see that.

    So it is with Todd, my brother in the Lord. May God restore this precious gift to the body.

  • Donna

    Kelly, I am FAR from a new Christian. And I totally understand that all have sinned – this is why I stated in above post that I’m not saying he shouldn’t be forgiven. What I’m saying is that I’ve seen more people, the people that followed this revival mostly, focusing on so many other avenues as to why, and who’s to blame for TB’s actions, rather than simply TB’s actions.
    Because I spent many many years as a Christian I’ve seen how it works, and I honestly never saw this kind of tolerance. One was called out – one was held accountable – there was never so many excuses as to why one may have made the decision to sin.
    So, if Todd is restored, new believers will be inspired by this, this is good. But, what about those that put him on a pedestal, and let’s face it many did, and then watched him fall, in the middle of this revival no less – I have to believe that there are more people out there whose faith has been destroyed by this whole thing, and all they’re seeing right now is those that were close to him giving reason as to why he was the victim in this whole thing. And whether or not this is what is meant, this is the way it’s coming across.
    JMO.

  • Rev Merry

    Donna thank you. My problem was who is picking up the pieces of what has happened. One a new babe in Christ would be more harmed than someone who has served Christ for years. That is why he should have never been allowed to do the revival because he had not finished his counseling from the first affair he had. What pastors in the other cities were asked to attend to be there for those who came to Christ. I know of only one church in Concord and that was the church who brought him here. That is why I like the Billy Graham Association. They send people in months before a Crusade to get local people involved. Who again picks up the mess left behind. And I agree if people were not strong in the Lord, their faith surely has been tested or destroyed. Let remember that here in Concord there are churches that will be there for people. Mine is Fruit of the Spirit Ministries at 4625 Garden Terrace, off Central Heights. If anyone in Concord has trouble since TB’s fall, we welcome you. 1030 am Sunday morning. Other churches need to reach out also

  • http://www.realmsofglory.wordpress.com Kelly

    My last response…

    Is it TB’s fault that people put him on a pedestal? Is it anyone’s fault but their own to make someone their idol?

    God will pick up the pieces. In the end it is God alone who knows a person’s heart (meaning the people whose faith is destroyed). We don’t give God enough credit To use this thing for good.

    I credit the heresy hunters for causing much more confusion than the whole entire Todd Bentley fiasco.

    By their own faith the people are healed by God alone. It never was Todd. He is not extremely relevant in what God is doing at this moment.

    And from my current experience, God can and will restore faith to the person who loses it.

    Be Blessed,
    Kelly

  • Jules

    “I credit the heresy hunters for causing much more confusion than the whole entire Todd Bentley fiasco.”

    Astonishing. I blame Todd and his ‘mentors’ for unbiblical doctrines and aberrant practices, and I blame immature tickly-eared Christians for buying into Lakelanditis instead of exercising spiritual discernment and recognising the Satanic roots of the phenomenon (and yes I use that word advisedly and deliberately, having come out of the occult myself).

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Jules, I hate to say, “Yeah, but” — but this is a yeah, but moment.

    I’m not an immature tickly-eared Christian. I’ve got plenty of discernment. The only satanic roots I’ve seen in the “phenomenon” of Lakeland are the heresy hunters.

    I came out of the occult too – and yet you and I are at different ends of the spectrum on this.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    >>But, what about those that put him on a pedestal, and let’s face it many did, and then watched him fall, in the middle of this revival no less – I have to believe that there are more people out there whose faith has been destroyed by this whole thing,< <

    Donna – trying to get caught up on comments this morning (no church, still likely to be contagious. :( )

    What I’m about to say might sound harsh, and I’m not sure how to dress it up and make it sound pretty.

    If people – new believers, old believers, the press, anyone – put Todd Bentley on a pedestal and was “hurt” by his fall – perhaps that’s not a bad thing.

    Would it have been better for God to allow them to continue in idolatry and delusion?

    I won’t go so far as to say that God caused Todd to sin (that would be heresy) but I can sure see His hand in the timing and that He will work even this out for good.

  • Donna

    >>but I can sure see His hand in the timing and that He will work even this out for good.

    And I hope you’re right Kathi.

    But still it is given the appearance that those defending him, and giving every reason they can come up with for his sin, that they themselves, though showing themselves to be very strong Christians, put him on a pedestal. Why else would the focus be on ‘who’s to blame other than TB?’ It seems they can’t come to grips that this whole thing was his fault alone. He alone knew what was going on in his life. He made the decision to be on that stage speaking lies, which is what it all was when it comes down to it, as his heart was not right. He wasn’t living what he preached. He alone knew all this, and yet he continued.

    >>If people – new believers, old believers, the press, anyone – put Todd Bentley on a pedestal and was “hurt” by his fall – perhaps that’s not a bad thing.

    This is the problem with WOF churches/revivals, people are swept up in the emotions. The focus is on feelings and not scripture. An older Christian can live on feelings for only so long, a newer Christian doesn’t stand a chance, and the one who doesn’t know and walks in for the first time is more than likely to run for the door within the first 10 minutes.

    When emotion runs high, to the extreme, as it does in a WOF revival, well human beings tend to ‘look up to’ whoever it is that for the most part is distributing the ‘energy’ that floods the room. This is human nature. And when this person falls – especially when it looks as though his life was a lie, people are affected, in one way or another. I don’t care who you are.

    Yes, God can fix some of the broken, but I still believe that there are those out there that will never come back – never be fixed. It happens – you and I both know that.

  • Jules

    Kathi – I think I’m just going to have to come out with it and pray that you hear me. You’ve been deceived by Lakeland BECAUSE you long so much for genuine revival. Your motives are fantastic but your discernment is off; you are where I was in the Eighties. The very things you rightly once stood against in the WOF movement are happening under your very nose with Lakeland; remember, I went through WOF and the Toronto Blessing as well as the occult, and Lakeland isn’t really very different at all. It has the same demonic roots, and the Lakeland ‘impartation’ won’t be the last manifestation of it either. You’ve bought into facile attempts to make it all sound Biblical, and you’ve not discerned the occult root of it all. It’s not even primarily about Bentley, he was just a guy; it’s a horrific cancer in modern Christianity, and charismatics/Pentecostals like you and me are the ones most likely to be deceived. I’m sorry. I know you won’t accept this, and maybe you won’t even speak to me again. But I fear for you, Ken, Kayti and the church you’re planting. Heck I wish there was a way of wording this so it doesn’t sound like a personal attack. It’s not meant to be, truly, but I’m sitting here in tears. I still love you, Kathi, but we are poles apart now. I was so concerned a few weeks ago I told God I’d fly over to North Carolina to talk to you if He wanted me to, and He told me you wouldn’t listen, so I’ve been praying instead. Please believe me: I do not say that lightly. I’m not into making false claims of grandiose words from the Lord, I’m not interested in ‘taking a position’ for the sake of it, and the last time I heard Him as definitively and warningly as this was when He ordered me to leave EW because of what was creeping into the ministry in 2005/2006. Maybe you’ll delete this post – I don’t know – but at least I’ve shared what has been desperately concerning me and the reason why I started posting here a few months ago. I’ll leave you in peace now.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    Jules – let’s get something straight. I love you. You’re my sister. I’m not going to delete what you say just because I disagree with it. I’m not going to stop speaking to you because of it. I don’t think any less of you for feeling this way.

    OK?

    But I do disagree, love. Maybe if I hadn’t seen with my own eyes. Maybe. I don’t know.

    Telling me that Lakeland’s occult/wrong/false/whatever is sort of like telling me that I’m not healed of EDS. Got told one day that I should still be using my wheelchair because I’m not healed. Yeah. OK. :)

    From the first time I read a post online about the revival and started watching on television, and through our trips to Lakeland, Concord, Charlotte…

    I’ve prayed more, studied the Word more (in fact I’d gotten bogged down in my Bible reading and stepped it up to finish reading the whole Bible straight through in about 6 months. Now I’m doing it again but taking it a bit slower, digging more, and reading chronologically). I’ve had assumptions challenged. I’ve had to hang on to Jesus because it’s been a wild ride. I’ve had prayers answered in ways I never anticipated. I’ve drawn much closer to the Lord than ever. And I’ve seen it all unfold with my own eyes.

    It looks like I’ll be back in Lakeland next weekend – we’re buying a replacement car for Kayt and I’ll be driving down and flying back. Guess what I’m going to do while I’m there? You got it – I’ll be visiting Ignited.

    I’m really not seeing facile attempts at justification, Jules. If you read over my posts here over the past year or so you’ll see a whole lot that’s drawn directly from the book of Acts. Somewhere there’s a post on here titled, “I want it all” or something like that, where I went through the Word and pulled out references to a pretty wide assortment of supernatural phenomena. There’s no reason why we’re not seeing the dead raised, the lame walk, and mass salvations other than the church (self included) hasn’t fully stepped up to the plate.

    I’m not sure how it can be considered “cancerous” to see people healed, raised from the dead, God glorified, huge and massive focus on the gospel, people sent out to do missionary work – even in their own back yards – all in the power that God promised we’d have in Him… I just don’t see it, Jules.

    Consider this, about Lakeland – every single night of that revival, repetitively, to the point where if you didn’t care about God’s glory you’d be awfully sick of it — God got the glory. He was worshiped, praised, and glorified. Does that sound like an orchestration of the devil to you?

    I know, you’ll likely argue that counterfeits are possible. And yes – it’s possible for something to look awfully good but be awfully evil. Witchcraft’s like that – deceptively beautiful. It doesn’t glorify God. A variety of cults and false religions are like that – but they don’t glorify God either. Something that’s a satanic counterfeit isn’t going to lead people into a closer walk with Jesus.

    And yet here we are. Everyone that I know personally (quite a few) and have met online who were active participants in the revival were blessed and are now closer to God than ever. Most of us were already madly in love with Jesus – but now even more so.

    Was the devil against the revival from the beginning? Of course. Could he have invented some stuff that some folks fell for? I suppose. Those would be the folks who put Todd on a pedestal. They should be thanking God for destroying their idolatrous nature.

    I’m afraid I’m rambling at this point, and probably pretty repetitive, so I’ll shut up and get started on dinner (Jerk chicken, festival, and callaloo – whoohooo!)

    I covet your prayers, Jules. Pray that God’s will be done in our lives. Pray for Him to mold us and shape us and use us. Pray strength and encouragement and life for us. Pray for the manifest glory of God to shine in us no matter where He takes us or what we encounter. Pray that we grow even closer to Jesus, more in love with Him, more in awe of His majesty, and we become more and more like Him every day.

    I love you, sister.

  • Anita

    Its fantastic that you ladies can post back and fourth like this with strong opinions that are opposite and still do it in love. Awesome!

    Just a thought – counterfeit leads to counterfeit including another Jesus all together…just a thought there to consider. Im with Jules on this one not that it makes a whole lot of dif.

    Bless you all xx

  • Rev Merry

    Kathi and Jules you may be apart on this, but I love it when two can still be sisters in Christ no matter what. My assement has mostly lined up with Jules on this. Having been a pastor now for 30 years, I have seen them come and seen them go. I believe Ignite is not a bad place to visit. Believe that what happened is tragic for alot of people. I and Kathi you know my thoughts on TB, but the focus for me is on the ones who are babes, and what damage was done. We can throw the blame till doomsday, but ultimaley the blame rest on those in leadership including TB. If someone falls, you pray for them. But I saw to many signs that weren’t pointing to the Holy Spirit. Now did moves of God happen, I believe they did, but it was because people had the right spirit. God will move. He will use anyone to do his will and work. But remember God’s word said in the last days, False Teachers will come forth to decieve.

   

Kay Sharpe


I'm a laid-down lover of Jesus Christ. I write about my King and His Kingdom, the Bible, revival, healing, prophecy, faith, and more... plus I throw in recipes, tips, news and politics items, reviews, and all sorts of random things just for fun. Until recently, I was known as "Kathi"... but my name is now Kay. It's a good, God thing... :) The opinions expressed in this blog are mine and mine only - not necessarily shared by my husband, our church, my employers, or anyone else.

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