Manifestations are nothing new

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May 112009
 

http://www.grmi.org/~bdonison/christian/revivalkit.html

Uncle Google just directed me to the above site, which references some historical revival materials – manifestations are nothing new. Fascinating stuff!

 Posted by Kathi at 5:49 pm  Tagged with: , ,
  • nu kid

    Hi Kathi!

    It’s interesting reading your thoughts on revival. But I’m wondering if you could break it down into terms/definitions as you see them. Yknow, the “5 Ws”; Who, what, when, where, why. And the “hows” too, lol.

    The thought came to me that folks might have varying degrees of difference in the terms/perception of what the word (revival) means to them and what all it entails.

    I was saved during the what came to be called (among other things) the “Jesus Movement”, which I expect would qualify as a revival. Or maybe a “revival-time”? But I had no idea(s) about the word “revival” at the time, lol. It just happened!

    • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

      Who what where why when? God moving in power in our hearts & taking care of business as we submit to Him and become burning hearts of prayer and devotion and action…

      I don’t know a lot about the Jesus Movement (yet, i’ll be researching it for Revival Answers…O for unlimited writing time!) but in many ways, JM is/was revival.

  • rhfellow@msn.com

    Hi -

    Thanks. That’s what I kinda was thinking about in differences of meaning, Kathi. Your aprroach/view is more on the Christian side of it – how believers are impacted (the “who”, lol). My own thinkin’ is it’s more towards those outside the faith. God’s Spirit “bloweth where it listeth” and it catches cross-sections of the “general populace” in it’s breeze. God’s people are used and feel encouraged, but the prevailing wind is the one of unbelievers turning to God. That would be my thumbnail sketch.

    The Jesus Movement era was an amazing time. Post hippie – for a generation that found no real answers in all the world’s Woodstockesque faux peace & love stuff. But even some of that stuff is sorta retro-campy good humor to recall :)

    • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

      Actually, I was including unbelievers-become-believers in the equation – BUT – tho I agree with you that God can move sovereignly and the wind of the Spirit has/can/will blow, it’s ALSO a Kingdom truth that “how shall they hear without a preacher?” (Romans 10:14) … we’re all called to be preachers of the gospel, even if we never stand in a pulpit.

  • rhfellow@msn.com

    Good points!
    Maybe there are different “revivals” that sometime crossover? Have you ever read the (fiction) book “In His Steps” by Charles Sheldon? Fascinating read. If not, you can download the free pdf of it at Google Books:

    In His Steps

    (I hope my html link syntax was correct there!)

    “we’re all called to be preachers of the gospel, even if we never stand in a pulpit.”

    My first “real” church was with a group that’s commonly known as the “Plymouth Brethren”, it was actually a storefront church-mission type thing. At any rate, the group really takes the “priesthood of all believers” seriously – there is no paid clergy or clerical-believers seperation. So your point was well-instilled in me! (My “first” church was a large Charismatic Renewal Inter-Chruch group – great for worship, but not as much so for a new believer to get the learning he needed.)

    In case you’re not familar re:the “Brethren”, here’s one site, though they have no official organization or site:

    http://www.brethrenonline.org

    If I knew of any of their assemblies that were charismatic-pentacostal, I’d suggest them to you to drop in and visit. I’m sure there are a few around somewhere since each assembly is autonomous, but as a whole they’re pretty much cessationist.

    Since my own time with them back in the day, I’ve moved on to informal and house-type meetings. Tho many of the “PB” assemblies meet in such settings, too – I knew one group that would meet outside, in the park. (except in the winter, lol)

    Also, on revivals, it’s interesting how many of the (former) mainline denominations resulted from revival of one sort or another and they had a major positive impact on themselves and on society, but you couldn’t tell it by looking at most of them now! I think the Spirit uses a group, but over the years – when the group increasingly decides to “do things their own way” – the Spirit then just moves on.

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    At any rate, the group really takes the “priesthood of all believers” seriously…but as a whole they’re pretty much cessationist.

    I’m not sure I can picture “priesthood” with “cessationalism”…

    You’re right – when people become more interested in themselves and their structures, the Spirit moves on.

  • rhfellow@msn.com

    “I’m not sure I can picture “priesthood” with “cessationalism”…”

    Hi Kathy -

    Poor girl – you gotta deal with comment sections that get longer that your blog entries themselves! Though I did read the link you have in this entry, so I s’pose maybe that balances it out a bit :)

    Re: your quote above – How do you picture the discreprency between the two concepts/practices?

    (I’m not Pentacostal, but I’m also not cessationist – just as a BTW.)

  • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

    I find it always amazing that the less I say, the more people have to say about it! :D

    As for your question, well – I see “priesthood” and “Spirit-filled” (in the Book of Acts sense) as synonymous. One really can’t go without the other and still be within the bounds of what the Bible says we should be doing.

  • Ron

    I especially liked the words from Jonathan Edwards in this piece.

    Found it amusing to hear where the term “barking up a tree” originated from. And who said that the Body of Christ doesn’t influence our culture huh?

  • Donna

    I have a very hard time with God finding honor in a room full of people barking like dogs. Honestly, this is worship? And the laughing thing…I don’t know, if this is what it takes to honor God then I really don’t ever see myself there.

    • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

      To be honest having read the link and some other revival-related stuff, I don’t think “like dogs” is necessarily a part of it. This was a major charge against Toronto, but someone recently told me that all the hype was about ONE meeting.

      Laughing… I don’t think that’s honoring God so much as Him loving on us. Until I experienced it myself, I was skeptical. Then one day during worship I felt the presence of the Lord so strongly I thought I’d simply fall. And then I began to laugh like I was being tickled.. and laugh… and laugh… it was a beautiful thing. I’ve always had a hard time with the “Father” because of my relationship with my own earthly father. This event (and subsequent ones in the years since) really helped with that in ways I never could have made up my mind to do.

  • http://Garnets2@yahoo.com Donna

    And I meant no disrespect to you Kathi…but this stuff has always seemed a little weird to me – well, more than a little.

    >>Until I experienced it myself<<

    That’s just it, I guess I’d also have to experience it myself to believe that there’s anything behind it other than lies.

    • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

      Donna – when it comes to Jesus and who He is, He said that it’s better if we believe, than be like Thomas who doubted. But when it comes to other things, I think He wants us to experience them – and Him – but His desire is to love us. He calls us “beloved” all throughout His word! It’s not His desire to weird us out – it’s His desire to draw us closer into His embrace.

  • Ichabod

    “but His desire is to love us.”

    What if you’re unable to return that love?

  • Donna

    Kathi, sorry to keep bugging you on this…but I do have one more question. If these manifestations are all of God, then why don’t all Christians feel good about them and except them?

    If we go back to the verse that continues to plague me, that says, ‘my sheep hear my voice, and a strangers they will not follow’, well why then would not all Christians know what is and is not of God?

    I think many don’t trust as some of these things tend not to be scriptual.

    • http://iamhealed.net Kathi

      Hey… you’re not bugging me! I love to talk about the Lord and what He’s doing. I’m just about done with Part 2 on revival – scriptural proofs thereof – and after that I’m going to look at what happens when revival comes and the church starts living biblically.

      So – if these manifestations are all from God, why don’t all Christians feel good about them? Accept them? Embrace them?

      Several reasons I can think of and I doubt this is an all-inclusive list –

      #1 – no experience with ____________ and therefore fear of it
      #2 – no knowledge of it in the Bible (and when people tell me “angelic encounters are not biblical”, I wonder how much Bible they’ve actually READ
      #3 – religious spirit – this is a biggie, perhaps the biggest biggie in the church today. We’re so caught up on religion and the devil loves it!

      Think about it – which would God prefer, and which would the devil prefer:
      A) a church where everything is orderly all the time, there’s only a little passion, and not too much ever really happens other than the orderly filing in and out of people to their pews (and that happens in plenty of shoutin’ dancin’ pentecostal churches. Lots of noise. Not much passion. Not much anything.
      or
      B) a church on fire where radical people are encountering their radical God intentionally for the purpose of loving Him and taking that fire to the world

      Revival is messy! God’s never claimed it to be otherwise!

      More later – Ken’s pulling in the driveway!

  • nu kid

    “I find it always amazing that the less I say, the more people have to say about it!”

    LOl – maybe if you did an empty entry or just posted a “?” the comments would be endless! The blog format suits you well as opposed to forum-ish stuff – you can write about what’s on your mind, see what folks think and not have to be running around stomping out a 1000 fires a day, knock a dozen heads around and be a nanny to a dozen others!

    “As for your question, well – I see “priesthood” and “Spirit-filled” (in the Book of Acts sense) as synonymous. One really can’t go without the other and still be within the bounds of what the Bible says we should be doing.”

    I see, but I think we kinda crossed thought-wires there a bit. I just used the term to illustrate the group’s non-use of a common church structure. i.e. there’s no Pastor who runs the show. Ya got elders, deacons, sometimes deaconesses – but they’re not titles, more like “it’s what they do”. And they’re all working stiffs & dads & moms, etc – the church “offices” are not paying gigs. So I was thinking more in the sense of “egalitarian nature”.

    “Spirit-filled” (in the Book of Acts sense)”

    On that it would be interesting to know if you have other senses of the term, in addition to the “Book Of Acts” sense. Mebbe material for a blog entry – by way of a defining/delineating some of the terms we all toss out, as you understand them?

    Just out of related curiousity, would you consider Mother Teresa to have been “Spirit-filled”? (I went with her for no reason other than she was/is a commonly held “Great Christian Person” as Hitler is often invoked as “Great Evil Person”.)

   

Kay Sharpe


I'm a laid-down lover of Jesus Christ. I write about my King and His Kingdom, the Bible, revival, healing, prophecy, faith, and more... plus I throw in recipes, tips, news and politics items, reviews, and all sorts of random things just for fun. Until recently, I was known as "Kathi"... but my name is now Kay. It's a good, God thing... :) The opinions expressed in this blog are mine and mine only - not necessarily shared by my husband, our church, my employers, or anyone else.

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