The short version of it all is, “Most of what’s said by the heresy hunters is either outright fabrication, deliberate twisting of facts, or the obfuscation of Biblical truth. Their goal seems to be to subvert the church and turn Her from Her destiny and purpose in the Lord.”

I’m often accused of being “latter rain”, “river”, “manifest sons of God”, “IHOP” (that’s prayer, not pancakes), “NAR” (New Apostolic Reformation), “WOF” (Word of Faith) and even just plain weird (I prefer “peculiar” ) I tend to resemble those remarks… but I’m not sure I can be neatly defined as any one of those things (nor can what I believe be defined by a denomination).

Perhaps one day the heresy hunters will write about me. We all have goals, right?

Most of these descriptive terms were in vogue log before I even got saved (and some came into fashion before I was even born). They seem to be fairly interchangeable and there’s considerable overlap between them. I have read a number of heresy-hunter websites and even a few reasoned and reasonable critiques of these supposed doctrines and I end up rather confused.

Reading over what the HH’s say on their sites, it’s easy to conclude that at least some of what they are discussing is “bad doctrine”. Some.

But here’s the confusion with the “some” part of it: It doesn’t really seem to exist in the wild (or if it does, it must be quite rare). I’ve spent considerable amounts of time in churches and ministries and around people who fit the HH’s criteria as MSoG. In fact, I know a few of them personally. I’ve never heard much of what the heresy hunters rail against from any of these teachers… or if I do, it’s in a context that has led me to conclude that heresy hunters twist and outright fabricate things. (Big Surprise to everyone… right?) Some of these fabrications are about things that I witnessed personally – it’s kind of hard to convince an eyewitness otherwise

There are a few pockets of church-folk in extreme error. For example, a handful of Branham’s followers concluded that he’s the messiah and will return. The fact that the vast majority of people do not believe this really doesn’t deflate the heresy hunters allegations… “because a few do, all must” is their motto.

It’s very, very rare that I read a critique of these doctrines that is truthful, honest, and biblical. I don’t mind those and I think they are necessary in the Body of Christ. Our doctrines should be able to stand the test of reasoned criticism. Even when agreement does not result, all are edified and the Church is able to move forward in unity. That’s not the tactic of heresy hunters. Their modus operandi is to cause division. Most make wild accusations, show edited clips on youtube, draw broad conclusions, and attempt to deceive the masses into being twice as much a son of hell as they are.

It’s true that the HH’s make points which are truthful (for example, prophecy and angelic visitations are really common amongst this crowd, and the HH’s like to complain about these things). But really – their truthful points all seem to boil down to the fact that they are jealous because they don’t hear from God and operate in His miracles. They want the church to become excellent pew-sitters; nice and tightly controlled. (sorry, y’all…)

So the alleged problems with Manifest Sons of God (MSoG) that the commenter alluded to…

I’m going to draw from the HH site “Let us Reason”, partly because their discussion is fairly thorough, and partly because their vernacular is not as hateful as certain others. According to them, the MSoG has a whole long list of problems. The following list of “problems” is distilled from one of their articles:

• A connection to William Branham.
• belief in the restoration of the Church and of five-fold ministry (apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists, pastors)
  • belief in authority
  • The authority to speak blessings… and even curses
• Denial of the rapture “in the classic sense” (that one made me ROFL)
  • that Jesus will not come bodily, but that the “body of Christ” will rise up as the visible return of Christ.
  • belief that the Church must be mature before Christ’s return
• spiritual warfare
• signs and wonders (including healings, seeing angels and demons, seeing visible glory, manifestations, prophecy, etc.)
• revival
• prayer and fasting
• taking dominion over the power of satan and reclaiming lost territory
• anti-denominationalism
• unity in the church
• end-time harvest of souls
• turning the world right-side up (a quote from Rick Joyner, saying we will do so)
• belief that we are, in fact, little gods and/or are equal to Christ.
  • (quoting from LUR) The Central theme to Manifest Sons of God doctrine is the belief that sonship to God comes through higher revelation via apostles and prophets. The Christian life, has levels to go through, to reach maturity. The first level is that of servant of God, the next is that of friend of God, following this is to become a son of God and the realization of gods ourselves. much like the new age potential in man)
• “A perfection of the saints, immortalization, and the attainment of being Christ as we become just like Christ in nature and ability.” (That’s a full quote from LUR..I just couldn’t bear to paraphrase that one!)
• (Quoting again from LUR) Quite a difference from the saints inheriting the kingdom when Christ comes and being servants (co-heirs) in it, adopted as sons (Rev.20:6). This is not a kingdom operated by humility but of power and force. This is why the take it by force teaching , and the pulling down of strongholds. Never mind that neither Jesus or an apostle never taught this to others, because this is what God is doing now. Its new, its fresh!

Yup. A long list. Let’s look at it one by one.

A connection to William Branham.

Any time a heresy hunter wants to “expose” something as “evil”, they connect it to Branham. Branham’s an interesting fellow. I know someone who knew him (and many of the other healing revivalists) personally, so I perhaps have an interesting perspective on the man.

Branham is an example of a man who began well and then wandered off into error. It’s been said that the reason for his troubles is that he stepped beyond the bounds of the anointing God gave him. There’s no doubt that he was gifted by God to heal people. He wasn’t, however, anointed as a teacher of theology. Reading over his doctrines, I can see where he got them from and why he drew those conclusions. (Yes, I do disagree with some of his conclusions and doctrines. But I also disagree with the doctrines of, say, Calvin and Wesley and can blow holes in both with the canon of Scripture – does that negate their ministries? In fact, I hold that the doctrine of Calvinism, especially in its hyper-Calvinistic form, is dangerous and evil - and yet h-C’s are still my brethren)

One thing about Branham that drives the heresy hunters wild is that he had a slightly different view on the nature of the Godhead than most. He ministered openly in both Oneness and Trinitarian churches, and taught that Father/Son/Holy Spirit are offices and that Christ is supreme. He’s often accused of being Oneness, but that’s not true. I need to say here for clarification – I’m strictly Trinitarian. But I’ll minister alongside my Oneness brethren just like I’ll minister alongside my Reformed brethren.

Does the fact that he erred greatly later in life negate his entire ministry? No. Does the fact that a handful of his followers really went off the deep end negate his entire ministry? No.

Belief in the restoration of the Church and of five-fold ministry, belief in authority, and the authority to speak blessings… and even curses

I really hate that something so incredibly simple in the Word of God becomes so fraught with misunderstandings… and worse.

Five-fold ministry is simple. God calls people to ministry. People minister. God gives them the authority to fulfill this ministry. This authority covers an awful lot of territory within God’s stated purposes for ministry.

Most church people (even heresy hunters) agree that authentic pastors are called to ministry and have (or should have) authority in the church. And most people will agree that some people are called to be evangelists (Billy Graham, for instance) and, if they think about it, will agree that some are called as teachers.

The offices of Apostle and Prophet are treated a bit differently. It’s ok for the pastor to have a little power (not too much), but nobody today is an Apostle or a Prophet… right? Wrong.

God established these offices and nothing (not one thing) in the Word removes them. Don’t believe me? Read Ephesians 4. The offices today are no different from the offices then.

And speaking of authority…just as the folks in the NT had the authority to bless and to curse (see for example, Acts 13:10, Hebrews 13:20+), so do five-fold ministers today. Must five-fold ministers be walking in God’s will? Of course. Will we mess up? Of course. And yet our most holy, omniscient, omnipotent God has trusted man to do His work from the very beginning of time. If God trusts man to get’r'done… shouldn’t man trust God trusting man?

Denial of the rapture “in the classic sense” (that one made me ROFL), that Jesus will not come bodily, but that the “body of Christ” will rise up as the visible return of Christ, and belief that the Church must be mature before Christ’s return

I literally laughed out loud when I read the “denial of the rapture in the classic sense” part. Why? Because the pre-tribulation rapture of the church is a relatively new doctrine. The church going through the tribulation would be a “classic” doctrine.

I’ve posted at length here on the blog regarding my beliefs about the rapture, so I won’t get into all of that (I’ve become a post-tribber, tho hey! it wouldn’t be bad to be wrong). The fact is that an excellent case can be made either way, and even a fairly good case could be made for a mid-tribulation rapture. All from Scripture. Among “river” people (see the broad list near the top of this post), there’s a broad range of views on the rapture; mostly standard pre- and post-trib.

I have never heard it taught that Jesus will not return bodily and personally. I have, however, heard it taught (and teach myself) that the Body will rise up and become mature before His return. If Jesus is returning for a pure, spotless Bride… we’ve got a long way to go! I do not believe that the entire church (that is, everyone who attends a building on Sunday morning; from pew-sitter to pastor) is part of THE Church. God will separate the wheat from the tares, the sheep from the goats, the wise from the foolish. I don’t believe for one minute that the rapture is going to happen, leaving people who thought they were Christians behind. That is taught in a large number of churches. Perhaps they’re right! But I sure don’t see it that way in the Bible. Those who are Christ’s are His, and those who are not are not, and this will be evident to all. In that day people may try to argue and manipulate… but they’ll know, and they’ll know why.

The Church will go through the tribulation – attacked by the enemy but standing strong even in deadly persecution (much like Steven in Acts 7), and protected from the wrath of God that will be poured out on the world.

If you’d like Scripture, check out my post on the timing of the rapture.

Spiritual warfare and taking dominion over the power of satan and reclaiming lost territory

signs and wonders (including healings, seeing angels and demons, seeing visible glory, manifestations, prophecy, etc.)

prayer and fasting

I get the biggest kick out of people who rail against these things. I mean… really. I think the heresy hunters sit with an exacto knife and anything related to warfare, wonders, and overmuch prayer must be excised from their Bibles. Jesus taught it – the apostles lived it – and some live it today (Mark 16:16-20)

anti-denominationalism

unity in the church

Anti-denominationalism: herein lies a big can of worms that I’m going to open, with glee.

Denominations are extrabiblical (EB). That means most heresy hunters are IFB *and* EB.

That doesn’t mean that denominations are bad (or good) – it just means that they’re not outlined in Scripture. Of course each denomination has their own focus, and that’s not a bad thing in and of itself. Paul talked about the Body of Christ being like a body… eyes and ears, fingers and toes. It’s similar to the five-fold ministry and the gifts, but on a broader scale. Some churches are called to see – and others to hear – and others to do. If this concept intrigues you, you should read John Burton’s 20 Elements of Revival and see his outline of the city church.

I’m semi-anti-denominationalist   I suppose I’ve technically never been a part of one – the Assemblies of God and Foursquare are technically not denominations – but I’ve always considered them to be so. To the extent that they fulfill Kingdom purposes they’re great. But denoms are often hidebound and bring disunity where there should be unity and I don’t deal with that. My current church is non-denominational and I love it; we operate within a sphere of apostolic covering and oversight and bring unity to the body everywhere we can.

The Church should have unity. We should exude unity. Aren’t we supposed to be one in Jesus? Two pieces of the unity puzzle are apostolic oversight and prophetic revelation. In the NT, apostles and prophets bring both direction and correction to the Body. Doesn’t mean we’ll all become clones or lose our church’s distinctiveness. There’s tremendous room within unity for Baptists and Presby’s and Pentecostals and _______.  Apostolic oversight doesn’t mean we’d all become Catholic, with a pope telling us what to do. It would mean we’d cease bickering over stupid stuff and fighting for control, and I suspect that wolves dislike this concept.

A huge part of the problem today is that self-appointed people (that’d be heresy hunters) are trying to function in the roles of apostles and prophets, bringing correction where they lack the authority to do so. I do find it amusing that the same folks who holler about apostolic and/or prophetic control are the folks trying to control everyone they run across…

revival and an end-time harvest of souls, turning the world right-side up (a quote from Rick Joyner, saying we will do so)

I’m not going to address revival here because I’ve done so in numerous past posts. See #1, #2, #3 on the subject. Suffice to say – revival is coming. So is the falling away. Which side will you be on?

I will, however, address the silly slam against Rick Joyner for saying that we will turn the world right-side up. LUR goes wild about what RJ had to say on the subject. After all, the Bible says that the apostles turned the world upside down, right? If we turn it right side up, we’re reversing it! <gasp! how awful!>

Let’s look at this logically. It’s all there in Acts 17. The Jews get ticked off at the actions of Paul and Silas, gather a mob, and storm Jason’s home. They claim that P&S&co have turned the world “upside down”. They are quoted as saying this (it’s not what God said).

From a non-Christian perspective, I suppose their little worlds did get turned upside down and wrongside out. But in God’s perspective, didn’t the apostles go about RIGHTING things?

Hmmm.

belief that we are, in fact, little gods and/or are equal to Christ.

This is a topic that I am still researching, because most of the clips and quotes I’ve seen of various preachers espousing this doctrine are heavily edited. If anyone out there has a videom audio, or article that is on the ministry website of the person who said it (if you’re complaining about Benny Hinn, for example, the clip/article is on HIS website), I’d be happy to look at it. I don’t waste my time on heresy hunter sites or youtube (unless it’s an event I was at personally so I know wherein the edits lie)

Most of what I’ve seen thus far and been able to research leads me to conclude that this alleged doctrine is something the HH’s have taken far, far out of context. Nobody’s saying that humans are, or can become, gods or God. They are saying that if we’re sons and co-heirs we’re living far short of our potential and calling (I’ll address some of that in the next part)

But I’m willing to examine evidence (real evidence, that is).

Sonship via higher revelation // Perfection, immortality, attainment of being Christ

This is one of those things that just make me shake my head in wonder… “You get what? From WHAT?”

(quoting from LUR) The Central theme to Manifest Sons of God doctrine is the belief that sonship to God comes through higher revelation via apostles and prophets. The Christian life, has levels to go through, to reach maturity. The first level is that of servant of God, the next is that of friend of God, following this is to become a son of God and the realization of gods ourselves. much like the new age potential in man)

(And still more from LUR) “A perfection of the saints, immortalization, and the attainment of being Christ as we become just like Christ in nature and ability.”

Let me be clear: sonship to God comes as a result of true salvation. When we commit our lives to Christ, the Holy Spirit comes – and it is by His Spirit that we are adopted children of God:

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, bu you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs – heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Romans 8:14-17)

Sonship does not come from the relationship with any apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist. Sonship comes from right relationship with the Lord. Period.

However – most of us are taught from an early age that we are nothing but maggots in the eyes of God (remember that old hymn with the bit about, “For such a worm as I?”. Worthless. Unworthy of salvation. Unworthy of love. An epic #fail.

In human terms, we really are. We can’t measure up to God’s standards. Apart from Christ, we are indeed hopeless. But God so loved the world… He ascribed to us – to sinners – even to people who hate Him, as I once did – so much value that He sent His only Son to take the punishment we so richly deserve. Are we really maggots, then? Are we really worthless? Or are we worth so much to Him that He would give everything to save us? (Daiyenu!) He did not only save us – He sends His Spirit to dwell in us. He adopts us as children.

Get this (let me know if you need Scripture but it’s all pretty basic) – get it deep down in your spirit and bring it up into your minute-by-minute consciousness:

• Jesus is God’s Son.
• If you are saved, you are God’s son (or daughter; for the sake of brevity I’m going to stick with son)
  • Why is this so? Because you are wanted – desired – passionately loved.
• Jesus is the heir to the Kingdom.
• If you are God’s son, you are also the heir to the Kingdom.
  
• You are destined to rule and reign with Christ.
• You *will* live forever. You *are* immortal. You will either live alive with the Lord, or you will live dead in hell – but you will continue on for eternity.
  
• God’s intention is for us to grow more and more Christlike.
• You are in training right now and considerable authority has already been given to you.
• Jesus is coming – whether He comes and zaps the church off into the atmosphere with Him, or whether the church goes through the tribulation and then He comes – one way or another, He is coming. And He is coming soon. That Day is closer than any of us realize. The Church who are (physically) alive at the time of His return will never experience (physical) death. That could be you and me. And that, my friends, is pretty cool in my book   And that, my friends, is the very biblical answer to the question of immortality.
  

Anything less cheapens grace and lessens God in the eyes of man, folks… be very, very careful.

So why are apostles and prophets playing a part in this? Why are maturity and “levels” playing a part?

If, when you come to Christ, you believe you are a worthless sack of xxxx coal, you cannot walk in the fullness God intends for you to walk in. You are incapable of receiving the enormity of love He wants to pour out on you. You must grow up in Christ. Every day, God’s desire is for each of us to grow more like His Son. Anyone who denies that we are supposed to be growing in Christ and that doing so is a process of maturing is… well… biblically illiterate.

In one sense, yes – when you say “yes” to Him, you are complete in Him. But you have by no means arrived. If you said “yes” in 1992 and are still at the same spiritual level ten and twenty years later as you were the day you got saved, something is horrifically wrong.

I hate to say it… most of the church needs deliverance. Some in a classic sense (they’re demonically oppressed), and some in the sense that they’re hanging on to these lies. Apostles and prophets (and really all of the five-fold ministers), by their very job description, are enabled by God to see, expose, and counter spirits and lies with Spirit and truth. I’ve been privileged to be ministered to in this way, and very privileged to minister to others. Lies flee when confronted with Truth. Freedom is a beautiful thing.

What is the POINT of five-fold ministry to begin with? Why did God give us apostles and prophets, teachers and evangelists and pastors? Unity, knowledge of Christ, perfection, measuring up to Christ, maturity… read it for yourself. The heresy hunters hate it, but it’s all right there in plain langugae in Ephesians 4 (if you’ve left that section in your Bible, that is).

(Quoting again from LUR) Quite a difference from the saints inheriting the kingdom when Christ comes and being servants (co-heirs) in it, adopted as sons (Rev.20:6). This is not a kingdom operated by humility but of power and force. This is why the take it by force teaching , and the pulling down of strongholds. Never mind that neither Jesus or an apostle never taught this to others, because this is what God is doing now. Its new, its fresh!

Neither Jesus nor an apostle taught power and force and pulling down of strongholds? What Bible is LUR reading? Humility is not debasement or worm-i-fication.  A humble man can – and will – certainly “take hold” with power and force. Humility is required for the pulling down of strongholds and spiritual warfare (remember the lesson of the sons of Sceva). There is a huge difference between humble application of power and authority and arrogance. We must become a people of great humility and great power… not because of who we are, but because of who God is.

Remember Jesus, guys? Mr. Humble He is – Mr. Milquetoast He’s not.  He tore up the money changers, showed up the authorities, tripped up the Pharisees, gave boot to the devil, and handed over the keys to the Kingdom of God (to who? but that’s another post). He ate with sinners, washed feet and had His feet washed, forgave the whores and thieves, healed the sick, cleansed untouchables, raised people from the dead, did much with little, walked on water, cast out demons, bucked authority… and THEN He had the audacity to come back to life and establish and empower His church after the authorities thought He was taken care of. Even after He went off to Heaven, He still shows up on the scene (see Acts 9 for example)… If we’re called to Christlikeness, we should strive for that level of humility, for the same power that raised Christ from the dead is at work within us.

So in summary – most of what the heresy hunters holler about is thoroughly biblical. In fact, much of what they holler about is stuff that should be so basic to the fabric of Church that it’s unquestioned. Some of what makes them wild is thoroughly un-biblical. Yet those “unbiblical doctrines” are mostly things that seem to exist in their imaginations or in tiny pockets of people and not in the realm of the reality of the Church. And even those bits that may be judged unbiblical by some tend to be seen as thoroughly biblical by others (God is the judge)… in the same manner that reformed people see arminians as unbiblical (and vice-versa), tongues-talkers see cessationalists as unbiblical (and vice-versa), liturgists see relationalists as unbiblical (and vice-versa)…

So. No apologies for an exceedingly long post. If you made it all the way to the end, congratulations If you’d like Scripture for any of it, let me know – I chose not to post much Scripture because, again, this stuff is so very basic.

It’s oft-argued by heresy hunters and critics of revival that the Bible does not speak of a great end-times revival. Instead, it speaks of the apostasy of the church and the great “falling away”.

I maintain that God speaks of both.

Let’s examine apostasy first, and get it out of the way (because it’s an ugly business, and also because when heresy hunters read this, I want them to read this part FIRST).

Throughout this article, I’m going to refer to a whole slew of people as “revivalists” – very loosely defined as anyone who believes in the power of God manifest in the here and now and actively working to bring about “on earth as it is in heaven”. This would include people from a broad spectrum of doctrine. I also refer to a passel of people as “heresy hunters” – those who devote their lives to picking for nits exposing heresy exalting satan and denigrating God. (for more on this, visit http://huntingheresyhunters.wordpress.com.)

The passage in question is from 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4; 9,10 -

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. [...] The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they may be saved.

This is echoed in 1 Timothy 4:1 -

Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons…

As a side note, it’s VERY interesting to me that Paul does not outline false prophecy, seeing angels, gold dust, feathers, or C. Peter Wagner as elements of deceiving spirits and demonic doctrines. He DOES however talk about speaking hypocritical lies, forbidding people to marry, and forbidding the eating of certain foods. (Hmmm. We could say Paul missed an opportunity but this IS after all the INSPIRED word of God – isn’t it?)

Let’s turn back to the “falling away”.

It’s quite clear from Scripture that there WILL be a falling away. There’s absolutely no doubt about it. Who will fall away is the question.

Heresy hunters have claimed that those falling away are revivalists. They claim that because revivalists regularly experience (and produce) signs and wonders, that these are the “lying” signs and wonders of the lawless one.

The Bible is quite clear – lying signs and wonders exalt the enemy. They do not turn people toward Jesus, they turn people away from God and toward false gods. They do not exalt the Lord God Almighty.

I have yet to hear a revivalist exalt the enemy. I have yet to see anyone turned away from Jesus or towards a false god. In fact, everything I’ve seen done at revivals exalts the One True God and seeks to give Him the glory for all that’s happening.

The entire stance of the heresy hunters is that one must operate within certain parameters in order to be a “true” Christian. Of course it’s true that there are some absolutes and that those absolutes are absolutely absolute (Jesus is Lord!) but look at what happened when the disciples tried to argue that people should do things THEIR way: Mark 9:38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40 ”For he who is not against us is on our side.”

Now – there ARE people who will work miracles in His name but who are not headed to heaven. Who are they? Jesus says (Matthew 7:21-23) that not everyone who says, “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven and not everyone who does signs and wonders in His name are saved. Jesus says, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” The word “knew” is vital because we cannot approach God without knowing Him. The word implies an intimate relationship, as opposed to simply knowing about or intellectually assenting.

I believe there are two groups of people who are “falling away” – those who do not love the truth, those who lie and attack the brethren, and who do not exalt Jesus: the heresy hunters;  and people who call themselves Christians but who are fully engaged with the world: “Christians” who see astrologists and psychics, “Christians” who practice magick, “Christians” who chase after other gods, “Christians” who practice and support abortion, homosexuality, and other abominations. (For the heresy hunters: As an ex-witch I can say with quite a bit of authority that I’ve seen NO magick among revivalists, and most of the witchcraft I’ve seen is out of YOUR camp (using the loose definition of rebellion and manipulation).

For the sake of clarity and completeness, I want to add that many within the church believe that the “falling away” is represented by the rise of non-Christians in our society. I believe this is a sign of the times, but NOT the “falling away” – for something to fall away, it must have once been where it’s falling from (hope that makes sense).

Although this “falling away” MUST happen, I believe that it breaks God’s heart to see those who profess to love Him acting this way. It’s His desire that all people be saved and come to know the truth of Jesus Christ – and while you still draw breath, it’s not too late for repentance.

Next post on this topic will be Scriptural proofs for the End-Times revival(s).

There’s my one-cup-of-coffee humor for you –

Whether they contributed to his fall or not is a subject for another post. (I just had a vision as I was typing that – will write about it later if I get permission to share it – but WOW it does make some things CLEAR)

If they were ONLY talking about TRUE things, I suppose I wouldn’t call them “weevils”. Depending on how they shared the information, I might call them “truthful” or “ugly”. Weevils go after the good – not the bad – and destroy it.

What am I talking about?

Peter’s Gentle Wisdom blog has yet another gem – an expose on the “exposers” who have steadfastly claimed that one of Todd Bentley’s tattoos is occult (specifically that it is the name of the buddhist angel “Emma-O”).

Turns out, it really means “King David”.

Here’s a link: http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=720

It’s high time for a liberal dose of pesticide on the weevils of the church.

“Laid Down Lover” is a phrase I picked up during the Lakeland revival. Heather Clark sang a song by that name and it’s stuck with me. I think the phrase is attributed to Heidi Baker. I found myself singing it to the Lord a couple weeks ago.

A few people (just google it) have made the accusation that it’s something perverse, which is rather silly (just google it and read the blogs of people who’ve made that declaration).

What does it mean? A lot of things. Do I fall short of what I’m about to describe? Yes. But Jesus meets me at that place, picks me up, and we go on…

“Laid down” – Jesus laid down His life for me, and He talked about how there is no love greater than when a man lays down his life for his friends (John 15:13). Since I am a friend of God (John 15:14), it would be foolish NOT to lay down my life for Him (Gal. 2:20, Romans 6). God does not desire dead religion and rote sacrifice. He wants us to be living sacrifices for Him (Romans 12:1).

To be “laid down” means to abide in Him (John 15). It means that you are still and know He is God (Ps. 46:10). It means letting go of that which does not profit and not striving for it (Mt. 16:26). It means being both heavenly minded and earthly good.

“Lover” – I love Jesus. Do you? If you love someone, that makes you a lover. Our culture has corrupted the term and made it into something it was never intended to be. “Lovers” now implies people who are having illicit sex. Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt. That’s not love, and those aren’t “lovers”.

A lover is simply one who loves – and I love the Lord with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Deeper than that, the Bible is full of references that portray Jesus as Bridegroom and the Church as the Bride. Jesus tells us (as individuals) to be like the wise virgins, ready for Him (Mt. 25). Then there’s always the Song of Solomon.

I don’t think that “sex” is being discussed in those references. Intimacy, however, is. That’s another thing that our culture has so badly skewed, the word has lost its intended meaning. “To be intimate” is just another euphemism for having sex.

sidebar: why is it that the church complains about words like “lover” and “intimate” but not about “sleep” <ahem> I now return to the post at hand…

Our relationship with the Lord is intimacy! Sin destroyed man’s relationship with God – and Jesus came to restore it. Too often we focus on sin/forgiveness and forget that the Gospel is SO much fuller, richer, deeper, higher!! God wants us to know the love of Christ that passes all knowledge (Eph. 3:18,19). To use a somewhat trite phrase, God wants us to have heart knowledge – not just head knowledge.

Knowing something intellectually is not a bad thing. I intellectually know lots of things – but unless I embrace them in my heart, what good is that knowledge?

The Bible says that Jesus is the Word become flesh (John 1:1). Why? In part, so that we could know Him.  Jesus said in Matthew 7 that there will be people who called Him Lord and did all sorts of things in His name, but to them He says, “I never knew you.”

That word, “knew” (ginosko), like most Hebrew words, is heavily nuanced. It implies an intimate relationship (and in ironic juxtaposition to our English term, it can even imply sexual relations). It doesn’t mean that Jesus lacks knowledge of those people, that He doesn’t know who they are. (It would speak rather badly of a God who claims omniscience if He doesn’t know everyone and everything, wouldn’t it? ) Jesus was talking about knowing them in the context of intimate relationship. He was saying in essence, “Those people were not lovers of Me.”

My heart and my flesh cry out for the living God!

Intellectual knowledge does not stir passion. The Lord wants us to be passionate lovers of Him! My intellectual knowledge of airplanes does not stir me to passion about them. They’re simply convenient vehicles to take me from one place to the next. How often the church treats Jesus like an airplane! We claim the promise, pray the prayer, and He gets us to heaven (some people add, “if we don’t jump out of the airplane along the way” to the mix).

Jesus is not “the only way to heaven”. HE IS LORD! HE IS GOD! Yes, of course, our only way to heaven is through His shed blood. But quit living like that’s the only thing He’s got going for Him! Live in the revelation ofwho He is and who you are in Him! Be filled with all the fullness of God (Eph. 3:19 again)!

I could go on, but my time grows short today. What I’ve written is just a drop in the bucket of what I feel and what the Bible says on the subject. Glory to God!

What I feel is very hard to describe – it’s holy fear and awe but more, but over time and with consistency I’ve come to know it as my “God is about” feeling. What I feel is subtle and I suppose could go un-noticed if I wasn’t paying attention. I never rely on “just” the “feeling” (I think that would be dangerous) but couple that with what the Bible and the Spirit actually say. (I can’t say that I’ve ever had the feeling when Scripture contradictions)

I also have a particular physical sensation when exposed to certain non-Christian teachings – occult, new age, JW, Mormon, etc. It’s almost like a cloud descends and it feels like something is trying to bend my brain. It’s an odd feeling, disturbing. (Likewise I can’t say I’ve ever had the feeling about something that’s actually God)

I’ve noticed over the last few weeks that I get that same cloud/bend sensation when I’m reading heresy-hunter stuff. I just happened upon a forum I figured would be pro-revival by its name. Some folks are, and some folks are rabidly anti-revival (not just Lakeland). Same sensation as I get when I’m around evil.

Just wanted to note it as something interesting.

Found two things of interest to everyone who’s following the Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley and the issues therein:

The first, from Pray the Revolution, discusses heresy hunters and bereans. Good take on it.

The second, from the Prayer Room blog, talks about Todd’s comments on his situation, through Rick Joyner. I’m copying the relevant portion here – but the rest of what Rick has to say is important, too.

”Todd Bentley asked me to convey his appreciation for all the prayers, expressions of love, and concern while he tries to navigate through this present situation. He is grieved by the trouble and confusion this has caused, especially to his friends, coworkers, and all who have trusted him. He wants to make a clear statement about it, acknowledging his responsibility in this and the mistakes he made, but he feels that he should first meet with Pastor Bill Johnson, who is out of the country and will not be available for a couple more weeks. He asks that you would continue to pray for him, and he thanks those who are willing to be patient. He wants to do this right and not hastily or superficially. ”

Anyway, for some reason my first fully cognizant thought as I stumbled out here to make the coffee was, “I bet a lot of people wonder why the House of Prayer movement does what it does” (If you aren’t familiar with the House of Prayer movement, they’re folks who pray and praise God 24/7/365, in a highly organized fashion. They call their method “harp and bowl” after a verse in Revelation 5:8; it’s basically prayer and worship together, in responsive fashion. See ihop.org for more info)

Our church isn’t affiliated with IHOP in any way, but I’ve been extremely blessed by their ministry on GodTV and their website. A friend’s church is seeking to go to 24/7 prayer but I haven’t seen him for longer than ten seconds to inquire if it’s on the same format or what (Theirs is an AoG church – a bit different doctrine than the HOPs at one major juncture (eschatology))

So I was sitting here sipping my coffee and coming into wakefulness. My morning routine consists of getting Ken’s breakfast, packing lunch, laying out clothes for him, and then sitting here at the computer running through my email and feed reader for about 15 minutes until the coffee hits. Lo and behold, this morning there was a long post from Tim Brownlee of “Not So Daily Timmy” titled, “MY HOUSE” shall be called a house of prayer…. that addresses this very question from an insider’s perspective.

Here’s a great little excerpt:

Isaiah 56:7 clearly says that God’s house is to be a House of Prayer for all nations. If something is called by a particular name that should mean that’s what it is known as.

Now, there’s something to consider: Is YOUR church known as a house of prayer (or is it just called that?) I’m not arguing that everyone needs to shift to this 24/7 format – but perhaps we need a major shift of focus in what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, and why we’re doing it…

[and everyone WILL note that I’m perfectly agreeable with folks who disagree with my opinions on things. I’m only giving the boot to the absolutely irascible.

Can anyone answer that?

Eeesh.

Here’s more information, along with commentary, from Peter Kirk’s Gentle Wisdom blog: Todd Bentley’s Apostolic Oversight Team in Action

In response to Jules’ question – “I’m not interested in swooping round the net to find salacious gossip; I’m trying to sort out in my own mind what went wrong where and what lessons can be learned.” — to be honest, I’m not sure we’ll ever know the whole story. And, I’m not sure that we should. Whether TB repents or not, whether TB is restored or not, do we – even though we’re brethren – have the “right” to every detail, whether lurid or mundane, of another’s life?? To be honest, I’m starting to see parallels between TB and the media’s treatment of, say, Paris Hilton and Brittney Spears. I mean, who CARES if PH got her puppy’s legs waxed yesterday? The whole TB debacle is taking on that level of paparazzi-fever.

Meanwhile, SLW at the Sound of Thunder blog has a VERY interesting take on the topic of BIBLICAL discipline: “How do you mend a broken part?” It’s almost certain to incite a riot in some circles. I found one of his commenters – ironically named “Todd” – He says (in part): I found myself angry at the Biblical method of dealing with a transgressor. I wanted justice, not mercy and forgiveness! How quickly we forget the mercy of our Savior!

Wow. That’s telling about the church as a whole. How many are crying out for justice – rather than mercy?

Zechariah 7:9 “Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘Execute true justice, Show mercy and compassion Everyone to his brother.’”

Amen.

I haven’t said much about it (and perhaps should have stated my intentions) because I wanted some time to reflect and pray.

So I have a question that’s come up.

Suppose I decided to tackle the issue of Mormons, or Jehovah’s Witnesses, or the folks who call themselves “Christian” Wiccans… and I said, categorically, “these people are NOT saved.”

Would anyone here object? Why/why not?

How about if I tackled the issue of Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church (the folks who protest military funerals and wander about with “God hates fags” signs), and said that he’s not a Christian.

Objections? Why/why not?

I’m just curious.