The short version of it all is, “Most of what’s said by the heresy hunters is either outright fabrication, deliberate twisting of facts, or the obfuscation of Biblical truth. Their goal seems to be to subvert the church and turn Her from Her destiny and purpose in the Lord.”

I’m often accused of being “latter rain”, “river”, “manifest sons of God”, “IHOP” (that’s prayer, not pancakes), “NAR” (New Apostolic Reformation), “WOF” (Word of Faith) and even just plain weird (I prefer “peculiar” ) I tend to resemble those remarks… but I’m not sure I can be neatly defined as any one of those things (nor can what I believe be defined by a denomination).

Perhaps one day the heresy hunters will write about me. We all have goals, right?

Most of these descriptive terms were in vogue log before I even got saved (and some came into fashion before I was even born). They seem to be fairly interchangeable and there’s considerable overlap between them. I have read a number of heresy-hunter websites and even a few reasoned and reasonable critiques of these supposed doctrines and I end up rather confused.

Reading over what the HH’s say on their sites, it’s easy to conclude that at least some of what they are discussing is “bad doctrine”. Some.

But here’s the confusion with the “some” part of it: It doesn’t really seem to exist in the wild (or if it does, it must be quite rare). I’ve spent considerable amounts of time in churches and ministries and around people who fit the HH’s criteria as MSoG. In fact, I know a few of them personally. I’ve never heard much of what the heresy hunters rail against from any of these teachers… or if I do, it’s in a context that has led me to conclude that heresy hunters twist and outright fabricate things. (Big Surprise to everyone… right?) Some of these fabrications are about things that I witnessed personally – it’s kind of hard to convince an eyewitness otherwise

There are a few pockets of church-folk in extreme error. For example, a handful of Branham’s followers concluded that he’s the messiah and will return. The fact that the vast majority of people do not believe this really doesn’t deflate the heresy hunters allegations… “because a few do, all must” is their motto.

It’s very, very rare that I read a critique of these doctrines that is truthful, honest, and biblical. I don’t mind those and I think they are necessary in the Body of Christ. Our doctrines should be able to stand the test of reasoned criticism. Even when agreement does not result, all are edified and the Church is able to move forward in unity. That’s not the tactic of heresy hunters. Their modus operandi is to cause division. Most make wild accusations, show edited clips on youtube, draw broad conclusions, and attempt to deceive the masses into being twice as much a son of hell as they are.

It’s true that the HH’s make points which are truthful (for example, prophecy and angelic visitations are really common amongst this crowd, and the HH’s like to complain about these things). But really – their truthful points all seem to boil down to the fact that they are jealous because they don’t hear from God and operate in His miracles. They want the church to become excellent pew-sitters; nice and tightly controlled. (sorry, y’all…)

So the alleged problems with Manifest Sons of God (MSoG) that the commenter alluded to…

I’m going to draw from the HH site “Let us Reason”, partly because their discussion is fairly thorough, and partly because their vernacular is not as hateful as certain others. According to them, the MSoG has a whole long list of problems. The following list of “problems” is distilled from one of their articles:

• A connection to William Branham.
• belief in the restoration of the Church and of five-fold ministry (apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists, pastors)
  • belief in authority
  • The authority to speak blessings… and even curses
• Denial of the rapture “in the classic sense” (that one made me ROFL)
  • that Jesus will not come bodily, but that the “body of Christ” will rise up as the visible return of Christ.
  • belief that the Church must be mature before Christ’s return
• spiritual warfare
• signs and wonders (including healings, seeing angels and demons, seeing visible glory, manifestations, prophecy, etc.)
• revival
• prayer and fasting
• taking dominion over the power of satan and reclaiming lost territory
• anti-denominationalism
• unity in the church
• end-time harvest of souls
• turning the world right-side up (a quote from Rick Joyner, saying we will do so)
• belief that we are, in fact, little gods and/or are equal to Christ.
  • (quoting from LUR) The Central theme to Manifest Sons of God doctrine is the belief that sonship to God comes through higher revelation via apostles and prophets. The Christian life, has levels to go through, to reach maturity. The first level is that of servant of God, the next is that of friend of God, following this is to become a son of God and the realization of gods ourselves. much like the new age potential in man)
• “A perfection of the saints, immortalization, and the attainment of being Christ as we become just like Christ in nature and ability.” (That’s a full quote from LUR..I just couldn’t bear to paraphrase that one!)
• (Quoting again from LUR) Quite a difference from the saints inheriting the kingdom when Christ comes and being servants (co-heirs) in it, adopted as sons (Rev.20:6). This is not a kingdom operated by humility but of power and force. This is why the take it by force teaching , and the pulling down of strongholds. Never mind that neither Jesus or an apostle never taught this to others, because this is what God is doing now. Its new, its fresh!

Yup. A long list. Let’s look at it one by one.

A connection to William Branham.

Any time a heresy hunter wants to “expose” something as “evil”, they connect it to Branham. Branham’s an interesting fellow. I know someone who knew him (and many of the other healing revivalists) personally, so I perhaps have an interesting perspective on the man.

Branham is an example of a man who began well and then wandered off into error. It’s been said that the reason for his troubles is that he stepped beyond the bounds of the anointing God gave him. There’s no doubt that he was gifted by God to heal people. He wasn’t, however, anointed as a teacher of theology. Reading over his doctrines, I can see where he got them from and why he drew those conclusions. (Yes, I do disagree with some of his conclusions and doctrines. But I also disagree with the doctrines of, say, Calvin and Wesley and can blow holes in both with the canon of Scripture – does that negate their ministries? In fact, I hold that the doctrine of Calvinism, especially in its hyper-Calvinistic form, is dangerous and evil - and yet h-C’s are still my brethren)

One thing about Branham that drives the heresy hunters wild is that he had a slightly different view on the nature of the Godhead than most. He ministered openly in both Oneness and Trinitarian churches, and taught that Father/Son/Holy Spirit are offices and that Christ is supreme. He’s often accused of being Oneness, but that’s not true. I need to say here for clarification – I’m strictly Trinitarian. But I’ll minister alongside my Oneness brethren just like I’ll minister alongside my Reformed brethren.

Does the fact that he erred greatly later in life negate his entire ministry? No. Does the fact that a handful of his followers really went off the deep end negate his entire ministry? No.

Belief in the restoration of the Church and of five-fold ministry, belief in authority, and the authority to speak blessings… and even curses

I really hate that something so incredibly simple in the Word of God becomes so fraught with misunderstandings… and worse.

Five-fold ministry is simple. God calls people to ministry. People minister. God gives them the authority to fulfill this ministry. This authority covers an awful lot of territory within God’s stated purposes for ministry.

Most church people (even heresy hunters) agree that authentic pastors are called to ministry and have (or should have) authority in the church. And most people will agree that some people are called to be evangelists (Billy Graham, for instance) and, if they think about it, will agree that some are called as teachers.

The offices of Apostle and Prophet are treated a bit differently. It’s ok for the pastor to have a little power (not too much), but nobody today is an Apostle or a Prophet… right? Wrong.

God established these offices and nothing (not one thing) in the Word removes them. Don’t believe me? Read Ephesians 4. The offices today are no different from the offices then.

And speaking of authority…just as the folks in the NT had the authority to bless and to curse (see for example, Acts 13:10, Hebrews 13:20+), so do five-fold ministers today. Must five-fold ministers be walking in God’s will? Of course. Will we mess up? Of course. And yet our most holy, omniscient, omnipotent God has trusted man to do His work from the very beginning of time. If God trusts man to get’r'done… shouldn’t man trust God trusting man?

Denial of the rapture “in the classic sense” (that one made me ROFL), that Jesus will not come bodily, but that the “body of Christ” will rise up as the visible return of Christ, and belief that the Church must be mature before Christ’s return

I literally laughed out loud when I read the “denial of the rapture in the classic sense” part. Why? Because the pre-tribulation rapture of the church is a relatively new doctrine. The church going through the tribulation would be a “classic” doctrine.

I’ve posted at length here on the blog regarding my beliefs about the rapture, so I won’t get into all of that (I’ve become a post-tribber, tho hey! it wouldn’t be bad to be wrong). The fact is that an excellent case can be made either way, and even a fairly good case could be made for a mid-tribulation rapture. All from Scripture. Among “river” people (see the broad list near the top of this post), there’s a broad range of views on the rapture; mostly standard pre- and post-trib.

I have never heard it taught that Jesus will not return bodily and personally. I have, however, heard it taught (and teach myself) that the Body will rise up and become mature before His return. If Jesus is returning for a pure, spotless Bride… we’ve got a long way to go! I do not believe that the entire church (that is, everyone who attends a building on Sunday morning; from pew-sitter to pastor) is part of THE Church. God will separate the wheat from the tares, the sheep from the goats, the wise from the foolish. I don’t believe for one minute that the rapture is going to happen, leaving people who thought they were Christians behind. That is taught in a large number of churches. Perhaps they’re right! But I sure don’t see it that way in the Bible. Those who are Christ’s are His, and those who are not are not, and this will be evident to all. In that day people may try to argue and manipulate… but they’ll know, and they’ll know why.

The Church will go through the tribulation – attacked by the enemy but standing strong even in deadly persecution (much like Steven in Acts 7), and protected from the wrath of God that will be poured out on the world.

If you’d like Scripture, check out my post on the timing of the rapture.

Spiritual warfare and taking dominion over the power of satan and reclaiming lost territory

signs and wonders (including healings, seeing angels and demons, seeing visible glory, manifestations, prophecy, etc.)

prayer and fasting

I get the biggest kick out of people who rail against these things. I mean… really. I think the heresy hunters sit with an exacto knife and anything related to warfare, wonders, and overmuch prayer must be excised from their Bibles. Jesus taught it – the apostles lived it – and some live it today (Mark 16:16-20)

anti-denominationalism

unity in the church

Anti-denominationalism: herein lies a big can of worms that I’m going to open, with glee.

Denominations are extrabiblical (EB). That means most heresy hunters are IFB *and* EB.

That doesn’t mean that denominations are bad (or good) – it just means that they’re not outlined in Scripture. Of course each denomination has their own focus, and that’s not a bad thing in and of itself. Paul talked about the Body of Christ being like a body… eyes and ears, fingers and toes. It’s similar to the five-fold ministry and the gifts, but on a broader scale. Some churches are called to see – and others to hear – and others to do. If this concept intrigues you, you should read John Burton’s 20 Elements of Revival and see his outline of the city church.

I’m semi-anti-denominationalist   I suppose I’ve technically never been a part of one – the Assemblies of God and Foursquare are technically not denominations – but I’ve always considered them to be so. To the extent that they fulfill Kingdom purposes they’re great. But denoms are often hidebound and bring disunity where there should be unity and I don’t deal with that. My current church is non-denominational and I love it; we operate within a sphere of apostolic covering and oversight and bring unity to the body everywhere we can.

The Church should have unity. We should exude unity. Aren’t we supposed to be one in Jesus? Two pieces of the unity puzzle are apostolic oversight and prophetic revelation. In the NT, apostles and prophets bring both direction and correction to the Body. Doesn’t mean we’ll all become clones or lose our church’s distinctiveness. There’s tremendous room within unity for Baptists and Presby’s and Pentecostals and _______.  Apostolic oversight doesn’t mean we’d all become Catholic, with a pope telling us what to do. It would mean we’d cease bickering over stupid stuff and fighting for control, and I suspect that wolves dislike this concept.

A huge part of the problem today is that self-appointed people (that’d be heresy hunters) are trying to function in the roles of apostles and prophets, bringing correction where they lack the authority to do so. I do find it amusing that the same folks who holler about apostolic and/or prophetic control are the folks trying to control everyone they run across…

revival and an end-time harvest of souls, turning the world right-side up (a quote from Rick Joyner, saying we will do so)

I’m not going to address revival here because I’ve done so in numerous past posts. See #1, #2, #3 on the subject. Suffice to say – revival is coming. So is the falling away. Which side will you be on?

I will, however, address the silly slam against Rick Joyner for saying that we will turn the world right-side up. LUR goes wild about what RJ had to say on the subject. After all, the Bible says that the apostles turned the world upside down, right? If we turn it right side up, we’re reversing it! <gasp! how awful!>

Let’s look at this logically. It’s all there in Acts 17. The Jews get ticked off at the actions of Paul and Silas, gather a mob, and storm Jason’s home. They claim that P&S&co have turned the world “upside down”. They are quoted as saying this (it’s not what God said).

From a non-Christian perspective, I suppose their little worlds did get turned upside down and wrongside out. But in God’s perspective, didn’t the apostles go about RIGHTING things?

Hmmm.

belief that we are, in fact, little gods and/or are equal to Christ.

This is a topic that I am still researching, because most of the clips and quotes I’ve seen of various preachers espousing this doctrine are heavily edited. If anyone out there has a videom audio, or article that is on the ministry website of the person who said it (if you’re complaining about Benny Hinn, for example, the clip/article is on HIS website), I’d be happy to look at it. I don’t waste my time on heresy hunter sites or youtube (unless it’s an event I was at personally so I know wherein the edits lie)

Most of what I’ve seen thus far and been able to research leads me to conclude that this alleged doctrine is something the HH’s have taken far, far out of context. Nobody’s saying that humans are, or can become, gods or God. They are saying that if we’re sons and co-heirs we’re living far short of our potential and calling (I’ll address some of that in the next part)

But I’m willing to examine evidence (real evidence, that is).

Sonship via higher revelation // Perfection, immortality, attainment of being Christ

This is one of those things that just make me shake my head in wonder… “You get what? From WHAT?”

(quoting from LUR) The Central theme to Manifest Sons of God doctrine is the belief that sonship to God comes through higher revelation via apostles and prophets. The Christian life, has levels to go through, to reach maturity. The first level is that of servant of God, the next is that of friend of God, following this is to become a son of God and the realization of gods ourselves. much like the new age potential in man)

(And still more from LUR) “A perfection of the saints, immortalization, and the attainment of being Christ as we become just like Christ in nature and ability.”

Let me be clear: sonship to God comes as a result of true salvation. When we commit our lives to Christ, the Holy Spirit comes – and it is by His Spirit that we are adopted children of God:

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, bu you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs – heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Romans 8:14-17)

Sonship does not come from the relationship with any apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist. Sonship comes from right relationship with the Lord. Period.

However – most of us are taught from an early age that we are nothing but maggots in the eyes of God (remember that old hymn with the bit about, “For such a worm as I?”. Worthless. Unworthy of salvation. Unworthy of love. An epic #fail.

In human terms, we really are. We can’t measure up to God’s standards. Apart from Christ, we are indeed hopeless. But God so loved the world… He ascribed to us – to sinners – even to people who hate Him, as I once did – so much value that He sent His only Son to take the punishment we so richly deserve. Are we really maggots, then? Are we really worthless? Or are we worth so much to Him that He would give everything to save us? (Daiyenu!) He did not only save us – He sends His Spirit to dwell in us. He adopts us as children.

Get this (let me know if you need Scripture but it’s all pretty basic) – get it deep down in your spirit and bring it up into your minute-by-minute consciousness:

• Jesus is God’s Son.
• If you are saved, you are God’s son (or daughter; for the sake of brevity I’m going to stick with son)
  • Why is this so? Because you are wanted – desired – passionately loved.
• Jesus is the heir to the Kingdom.
• If you are God’s son, you are also the heir to the Kingdom.
  
• You are destined to rule and reign with Christ.
• You *will* live forever. You *are* immortal. You will either live alive with the Lord, or you will live dead in hell – but you will continue on for eternity.
  
• God’s intention is for us to grow more and more Christlike.
• You are in training right now and considerable authority has already been given to you.
• Jesus is coming – whether He comes and zaps the church off into the atmosphere with Him, or whether the church goes through the tribulation and then He comes – one way or another, He is coming. And He is coming soon. That Day is closer than any of us realize. The Church who are (physically) alive at the time of His return will never experience (physical) death. That could be you and me. And that, my friends, is pretty cool in my book   And that, my friends, is the very biblical answer to the question of immortality.
  

Anything less cheapens grace and lessens God in the eyes of man, folks… be very, very careful.

So why are apostles and prophets playing a part in this? Why are maturity and “levels” playing a part?

If, when you come to Christ, you believe you are a worthless sack of xxxx coal, you cannot walk in the fullness God intends for you to walk in. You are incapable of receiving the enormity of love He wants to pour out on you. You must grow up in Christ. Every day, God’s desire is for each of us to grow more like His Son. Anyone who denies that we are supposed to be growing in Christ and that doing so is a process of maturing is… well… biblically illiterate.

In one sense, yes – when you say “yes” to Him, you are complete in Him. But you have by no means arrived. If you said “yes” in 1992 and are still at the same spiritual level ten and twenty years later as you were the day you got saved, something is horrifically wrong.

I hate to say it… most of the church needs deliverance. Some in a classic sense (they’re demonically oppressed), and some in the sense that they’re hanging on to these lies. Apostles and prophets (and really all of the five-fold ministers), by their very job description, are enabled by God to see, expose, and counter spirits and lies with Spirit and truth. I’ve been privileged to be ministered to in this way, and very privileged to minister to others. Lies flee when confronted with Truth. Freedom is a beautiful thing.

What is the POINT of five-fold ministry to begin with? Why did God give us apostles and prophets, teachers and evangelists and pastors? Unity, knowledge of Christ, perfection, measuring up to Christ, maturity… read it for yourself. The heresy hunters hate it, but it’s all right there in plain langugae in Ephesians 4 (if you’ve left that section in your Bible, that is).

(Quoting again from LUR) Quite a difference from the saints inheriting the kingdom when Christ comes and being servants (co-heirs) in it, adopted as sons (Rev.20:6). This is not a kingdom operated by humility but of power and force. This is why the take it by force teaching , and the pulling down of strongholds. Never mind that neither Jesus or an apostle never taught this to others, because this is what God is doing now. Its new, its fresh!

Neither Jesus nor an apostle taught power and force and pulling down of strongholds? What Bible is LUR reading? Humility is not debasement or worm-i-fication.  A humble man can – and will – certainly “take hold” with power and force. Humility is required for the pulling down of strongholds and spiritual warfare (remember the lesson of the sons of Sceva). There is a huge difference between humble application of power and authority and arrogance. We must become a people of great humility and great power… not because of who we are, but because of who God is.

Remember Jesus, guys? Mr. Humble He is – Mr. Milquetoast He’s not.  He tore up the money changers, showed up the authorities, tripped up the Pharisees, gave boot to the devil, and handed over the keys to the Kingdom of God (to who? but that’s another post). He ate with sinners, washed feet and had His feet washed, forgave the whores and thieves, healed the sick, cleansed untouchables, raised people from the dead, did much with little, walked on water, cast out demons, bucked authority… and THEN He had the audacity to come back to life and establish and empower His church after the authorities thought He was taken care of. Even after He went off to Heaven, He still shows up on the scene (see Acts 9 for example)… If we’re called to Christlikeness, we should strive for that level of humility, for the same power that raised Christ from the dead is at work within us.

So in summary – most of what the heresy hunters holler about is thoroughly biblical. In fact, much of what they holler about is stuff that should be so basic to the fabric of Church that it’s unquestioned. Some of what makes them wild is thoroughly un-biblical. Yet those “unbiblical doctrines” are mostly things that seem to exist in their imaginations or in tiny pockets of people and not in the realm of the reality of the Church. And even those bits that may be judged unbiblical by some tend to be seen as thoroughly biblical by others (God is the judge)… in the same manner that reformed people see arminians as unbiblical (and vice-versa), tongues-talkers see cessationalists as unbiblical (and vice-versa), liturgists see relationalists as unbiblical (and vice-versa)…

So. No apologies for an exceedingly long post. If you made it all the way to the end, congratulations If you’d like Scripture for any of it, let me know – I chose not to post much Scripture because, again, this stuff is so very basic.

So here’s a thought: Jesus said we WOULD do those things (see the tail end of Mark 16). He never said we WOULDN’T do those things. He never said we SHOULDN’T do those things. He said we should and He said we would.

The ONLY reason there’s a “new breed” rising up in the church (if you’d like to call it that) is that the Body hasn’t been doing what the Lord gave us to do. If the Church had been obedient all this time, all these signs and wonders and miracles would be pretty common-place…

So the heresy hunters are actually pointing people toward deliberate disobedience and rebellion against Christ.

Now there’s a scary thought arising before breakfast.

Jesus shows up, walking on the water. The disciples figure it’s a ghost and freak out. Jesus tells them who He is. Peter, ever the impulsive, puts Him to the test:

“Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.” So He said, “Come.”

And so Peter got to walk on water.

Turn the page to chapter 16, verses 1-4 – an oft-quoted passage of Heresy Hunters. In this passage, the Pharisees and Sadducees came and tested Jesus, asking Him for a sign from heaven. He answered, concluding with, “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.”

Interesting – Peter, who had a relationship with Jesus, tested Him by asking Him for a sign. Jesus was abundantly happy to give him a grand one! The P’s&S’s, who did not enjoy a relationship with Jesus, asked Him for a sign, and He chastised them.

It would seem that those who enjoy a relationship with Jesus get to enjoy lots of things that those who lack relationship miss out on – eh?

She also tackles her thoughts about Lakeland now that some of the dust has settled – GOOD stuff there.

Kelly, if you read this – thank you for being such an encourager to the Body of Christ!

But in that half-awake, half dream state, my mind turned to something that it shouldn’t have turned to and for a few minutes I contemplated something that is sin. Then in the deep recesses of my mind I heard a word – “Desecration” (hey! I know that Voice!) – and still in that half-awake, half dream state I spoke to desecration and commanded it to leave me.

Instantly I was awake (and I mean six shots of espresso awake) and my contemplation of that sinful thing was gone. It was like it fell like a house of cards in the wind.

So I wandered into the kitchen (Ken was still asleep) and pondered what just happened. I’m fairly sure it wasn’t a dream. So I talked to God about it, told Him I was sorry for letting my mind wander, and I felt His forgiveness (which – going back to my post yesterday about discernment, I often “feel” things God’s doing as well). Then I talked to Him about a variety of other issues going on, and I felt (and still feel!!) His presence and His love in such a powerful, tangible, literal fashion that I’ve started weeping a couple of times and at times I can hardly type… but I wanted to share with all of you what He’s up to this morning around here… what’s He doing in your hearts and your worlds today?

Tears and hysterics. She’d had a car wreck up in Maryland (where her summer job was), and was pretty sure the car wasn’t driveable.

She’d been driving back to her room with 3 of her friends and a guy ran the red light. She’s pretty sure that he had no headlights on, because all she saw was shadow. She knew the shadow would hit the side of her car, so she swerved to protect her passenger. It’s a good thing she did, because the girl might well have died. She took the impact on the front left bumper of the car. They spun around a few times and ended up banging into a big light pole.

The kids were jolted around a little bit, and pretty shook up – but none of them were injured.

The guy who hit them parked his car and took off on foot. The cops busted him later and he was in jail last I knew. They towed her car off, and a friend came to give them a ride home (THANKS GAVIN!)

About a week before, God showed me that Kayti would be a car accident before she left Maryland. I didn’t tell anyone – I just started praying. After she called, I told Ken and he said, “God showed me the same thing! I’ve been praying for her safety all week!!”

God answered those prayers. The tow truck guy was amazed the kids had escaped injury.

Since her car wasn’t driveable, we headed up to MD to get her and all her stuff and bring her home. She was supposed to have left Saturday afternoon to drive home ANYWAY!! At that point we were figuring that the car might be fixable. Kayt went that afternoon to get her stuff out of it (AGAIN – THANKS GAVIN!) and sent us a picture:

I, of course, burst into tears. Ken was pretty close. We got to see the car for ourselves the next morning – it looks far worse in person. The front bumper’s gone, the radiator’s smashed right into the engine, pieces of the top of the motor, like the emissions canister, are mangled or gone. The airbag deployed and Kayti says at the accident scene there was oil everwhere – so we think the engine block’s cracked too.

The tow truck guy told us that the insurance company will likely total it. It makes us mad because although it’s an older car, it was in pristine condition. Kayt had just put new tires on it and had some other work done to it. It even got great gas mileage!!

He also told us that by the look of things, the guy had to be travelling a lot faster than the speed limit.

We’re still waiting to hear from the policeman who responded to the scene. The cops say we have to wait 10 days for a police report – which includes finding out the guy’s name and insurance info. WHAT? She’s got to be at school Saturday morning. How’s she going to get there??

So, we’re praying for God to make a way for a speedy resolution to the whole matter.

We could have gotten a midnight call that our baby had been killed. God heard our prayers and protected her!!

So, we drove from Charlotte Sat AM to Greensboro, and rented a car because we weren’t sure the van would make that long of a trip. Drove up to the far side of DC through hours (weeks? years?) of bumper to bumper traffic, and got there so exhausted we decided to get a hotel rather than risk driving home sleepy. So we stayed at the Sleep In in Laurel, MD. If you’re ever in the DC area that’s the place to say. Nice room, nice indoor pool, nice breakfast, nice people for far less money than any of the other hotels in the area!!!

We drove back Sunday afternoon, after seeing the car (and crying some more). Got in lateish last night and went zzzzzzzzzzz. Still feeling tired and achy from so much riding, but so glad to be home with our daughter safe and sound!!

If you want to read something REALLY cool, scroll down to the heading, “A Visit From Jesus”.

ARRIVAL

Thursday morning we packed up and headed down to Charlotte. Our hotel (Best Western Carowinds) was quite nice. They let us check in early. We got a bite to eat and headed over to Morningstar fairly early. We’d never been there before, so we drove around and saw the big field where Friday’s meeting would be, and sort of self-toured their campus.

I’d heard that Morningstar had bought the old PTL (Jim Bakker) campus, but since the whole PTL thing blew up years before I cared about what Christians did, I didn’t know about it. They sunk bazillions of dollars into the place, and apparently even though it was opulent, some of the workmanship was shoddy – especially on the high-rise apartment building that’s going in right next to the church (which meets in the former lobby of the big hotel). Opulent doesn’t even describe the hotel/indoor mall/church… it looks like something out of a fairy tale (and yes, there IS a castle on the premises too – but it seems to be boarded up for now.) Morningstar bought it for 1.6 million in terrible disrepair, and they’ve been fixing it up ever since. It seemed to us that where they were able to preserve the beauty of the place inexpensively, they’ve done so – but where that would cost too much they’ve opted for plainer and more practical.

PARTNER’S MEETING

After we registered for the partner’s meeting, we ate a nice and inexpensive lunch in the church’s Missions Cafe, then wandered through the bookstore and such. While we were eating, we got to say a quick hello to Rick Joyner. I gained a lot of respect for him over the two days we were there. Many senior pastors of important ministries expect everyone else to do the work, and the pastor expects to sit in the air conditioning and get the glory for it. Rick was out there talking with team members, making sure they had what they needed… and on Friday he was out driving a golf cart around working!!

Eventually we bought a book and got in the book-signing line. I highly recommend that everyone read Todd’s latest book – The Reality of the Supernatural World. He signed it for us, and chit-chatted, and shook our hands. I do admit that it’s nice to know that it’s possible to be touched by Todd Bentley and NOT end up on the floor!!

The partner’s meeting was nice. We weren’t sure what to expect. They talked a lot about the work in Uganda, especially with the child soldiers (made me cry!) and they took up an offering, of which 100% of it goes to that work.

IMPARTATION

Afterward, we had a healing/impartation prayer line. This time when Todd touched me I went out on the floor (most folks did) and I had an experience with God that was just incredible. I could feel the heavy weighty kabod glory of God, and peace and warmth and love flowing through me. I just lay there for a long time, just drinking in His presence. After it was over, no one wanted to leave!!

FRIDAY’S REVIVAL SERVICE

On Friday, we got up and found the Starbucks We eventually made our way over to Morningstar. It was a big open field, but fortunately the main building was open and air conditioned, so before the service started at 5, we were able to go in and rest a bit. We sure got sunburned! But interestingly the sunburn doesn’t hurt…

CARNIVAL?

I’m sure a lot of people who see it on GodTV or youtube will say, “It had a festival (or carnival) atmosphere”. Well, sure. If you get a coupla thousand people together in a big open field, and make sure their needs are met, it’s going look like the county fair minus the rides. People need to potty – and so there were portapotties everywhere. People need to eat, and drink, and so there were food vendors (most of which were reasonably priced!). People also brought in coolers with dinner and bottled water. Since it was in a field, most people brought lawn chairs or blankets to sit on. People want to buy stuff, so the bookstore had a tent with books and t-shirts and such. Music or video was playing. Was it a festival? Yes!

One neat thing is that it was 08-08-08 and it was 88 degrees (the temp dropped 10 degrees between Thursday and Friday — THANK GOD!!). Still hot but not enough to really cause trouble.

The worship was great, but it was a little difficult for us to get into because we didn’t know ANY of the songs. The musicians were fabulous, and we did pick up on the choruses of a few songs along the way. So, we just had to determine to worship the Lord despite that. It was good dancin’ music!!

A VISIT FROM JESUS

The first highlight of my evening was when Todd announced that they were going to have a special commissioning for ministry prayer for people ages 25-40. Bob Jones had given a prophetic word prior to the meeting about a “new breed” of Christians – which I took to mean the younger generation rising up and really believing in, and acting upon, God’s Word.

So I stood up along with hundreds and hundreds of others, and Todd prayed over us all. Mid-prayer I suddenly couldn’t really hear him any more. It’s not like I went deaf – it’s more that my focus changed and his voice became part of the background noise.

I had my eyes closed and my hands raised and I was praying to receive everything that God wanted to give me.

Suddenly my eyes were filled with light, and out of that light I saw Jesus coming toward me. I was filled with awe and holy fear and anticipation all at once. I started crying, because I could feel His love for me. He stretched out His hand (I saw the scars!!) and He touched each of my hands, and my forehead. I very nearly fell out on the ground!! Then He was gone from my vision…

I’m not sure how to describe what I felt in those moments, except that after He had gone from my vision I could sense His presence in a greater way than I ever could before. For me, that’s really saying something, because the instant I was saved I could feel Him there with me, and that sense of Him has been growing ever since. And yet Friday that grew so much more that… wow.

I also had a literal sense of commissioning, and a confidence in God and in His ability to use me, to strategically position me, to speak through me.

I’m sure the heresy hunters will have a field day with my vision of Jesus… oh well. I think I’m going to make a heresy-hunter-hunter’s site this afternoon They need to get over themselves and read the book of Acts. They might even get saved…

RAIN

At one point, Todd brought up a young man from the Morningstar school (they’ve got a K-12 school there apparently). He and several friends had been to Lakeland, got some, brought it back and kicked off revival services there – they’ve got meetings 6 nights a week! That was one on-fire kid!! During the offering, they played a video of revival services there… WOW. People giving glory to God and burning with passion for Him – healings and miracles – and twice, rain… you could see on the video that literally drops of liquid were forming out of thin air and falling from above. It was WILD!!

HEALING

Todd started to call out words of knowledge. One was for a pain in the side, which Ken’s had for months. He reports that it’s gone. There were several dramatic healings that night.

MINISTRY

When we sat down, a mom and daughter sat next to us. It was obvious that both had health problems, and that the daughter had some muscle problems. She didn’t move right, speak right, etc. God spoke to me, “crack cocaine”, torment, and the name Ashley, and several other things. We planned on praying for both of them during the healing ministry, but late in the evening the daughter took off. The mom told us she was laying down in the car, feeling really awful. So we prayed with the mom (who’s on dialysis), and went out to the car. We prayed with the daughter, confirmed the accuracy of those words of knowledge, counseled her about unforgiveness and a few other things, and ended up going out for a late-night dinner with them. Lovely people. It’s hard for me, when I do God-encounter ministry like that, because it’s rare that I find out what happened afterward. They’ve got our phone number, maybe they’ll call us one day.

CAR WRECK

We were just about to pay and leave the restaurant when my cell phone rang. Why would Kayti be calling after midnight? I answered and she burst into tears. She’d just had a car wreck… and I’ll continue about that in my next post.

 And when I found out that if she hadn’t swerved to miss the guy, it’s likely that her passenger would have been killed. It turns out that she didn’t avoid him completely – just changed the impact location – and so her car is almost certainly totalled. It filled with black smoke, the air bag deployed, and the windshield’s busted on the driver’s side.  The tow truck guy says there’s no way the ins co will consider it worth fixing, so that’s what we’re going on. (If we thought they’d fix it quickly on Monday we might stay up here. But even if it were fixable it’d be no quick fix, that’s for sure.

The guy who caused the accident shot through a red light – she thinks with no headlights on, she says all that she saw was a shadow and she swerved to avoid that (it was very late Fri night when this happened). The guy left his car and took off running. The cops caught up to him at the 7-11 and arrested him. We still don’t know anything about him – name, whether he’s got insurance, whether he was drunk – but we’ve started praying that he does have insurance and that he gets to know Jesus.

The KICKER is that about a week ago I got notice from the Lord that Kayt would be in a car wreck before she left MD. So I have been praying all week, tho tempted to chalk it up to a momma worrying too much!! I didn’t even tell Ken about it!!  When she called, hysterical, to tell us what happened, I knew that God had answered my prayers. I told Ken and his jaw dropped – God had told him the same thing, and he’d also been praying all week!!! What a wonderful God we serve!!!

The trip to Charlotte was lovely – and the ministry was absolutely incredible. I had an experience with Jesus that just rocks my socks off, and I’ll say more about that later too.  We got to minister to a mom and her adult daughter after it was all over, and God gave me several incredibly accurate words of knowledge for them – things that not only could I not have known, but things that the daughter didn’t want to admit but finally did. The presence of the Lord in that big field was so incredible I don’t know how to describe it.

PLEASE join us in praying that the insurance companies will settle this quickly because Kayti’s GOT to be in Lakeland, FL early Sat morning for college!! If she doesn’t have a replacement car by then, we very well might need to rent a car and drive her down, or possibly put her on the Amtrak (which she despises, but it’s cheaper!!) I guess if we did that, we’d have to fedex all her stuff to her too. But God’s got a solution!

Gotta run!

Anyway, I saw a LOVELY small totebag (a little bigger than a pocketbook, but not big enough to qualify as a suitcase) of quilted fabric. I “picked out” the blue one as the one I liked – then fainted when I saw the price tag ($53!!!!). I said, “Lord, I’d like to have one, but I’m not spending that amount of money for it!!”

Today, I got a “nudge” to go into the Goodwill thrift store, and guess what I found there? Same bag. Same maker. Almost-new condition. Different price – I thanked God, and paid $3.

I’ve long known that God answers prayer big and small – but it always delights me to know that He delights in small things as well as big things!!

#1 is lack of faith.

Somebody’s going to come along and say, “Yeah, well what about praying for unsaved loved ones?” It’s true that God sometimes does miracles, even healings, in the lives of unsaved people. Someone else will say, “What about the folks in the Bible who didn’t have faith to be healed?”

I think that God holds people responsible for the measure of faith they SHOULD have – for someone who’s known Him a long time, that will be much greater than someone who has no idea who Jesus is. I don’t think the man in Acts 4 who was healed outside the temple had one iota of faith – he wanted money. His mind wasn’t on healing. But the Bible also says that in one town, Jesus couldn’t do many healings because the people lacked faith. Since they’d seen His ministry before, I’m guessing that they should have had it.

#2 is lack of belief.

I maintain there’s a difference between faith and belief, and our lack of belief that God WILL do something greatly hampers us. You can read more about it in this recent post.

That said… faith/belief are not the ONLY reasons why a person is not healed.

#3 is that healing is not what is needed.

Before I was saved, I went quite nearly deaf. It started in my teens and was a very very slow process up until the year before I came to Christ, during which time I went from fully-functioning, occasionally annoyed to “gosh! I really can’t hear a thing!” The doctor actually advised me to learn sign language in case I went completely deaf. Their theory is that I had an autoimmune disorder.

Shortly after I was saved, the Lord led me through deliverance – I quite literally cast out the demons that I’d asked to live inside me as a pagan. (Here’s a testimony-related post, and my testimony itself). When I was done telling the demons to go in Jesus’ name – I could hear again, instantly. Not only that, but my restored hearing tests out better than most people’s.

What had manifested as a medical problem was really a spiritual problem.

I’ve heard others with similar testimonies – that they had anything from high blood pressure to blindness to cancer – and when the demons were cast out, the disease instantly went too – often without being prayed for or mentioned by name.

#4 is that healing is not the FIRST thing that is needed.

I also know of testimonies (including some first-hand experience in praying for others) of people who’d prayed and prayed for years for healing. Nothing happened.

Someone prayed for either a generational curse to be broken, or for “inner” healing (emotional baggage), or even for a curse or spell to be broken.

I used to not believe much in that stuff, but quite honestly I’ve seen enough that I’ve gone from total unbelief to wondering to believing that, at least sometimes, this stuff needs to be broken off before we can receive healing. Why? I don’t know exactly – I just know that I’ve talked face to face with people and seen for myself that years of devastating illness only came to an end after this sort of prayer.

#5 is closely related to #4 – there is a barrier to healing: sin.

Sin – especially the sin of unforgiveness – seems to be a barrier to receiving healing from God. I’m not implying that a Christian is capable of living a perfect, sinless life… I am however saying that if we’ve got ongoing sin issues that we’re unwilling to put under the Blood, then we’ve got no business expecting God to take care of us. Sometimes He might (He knows best) – but to trample grace yet expect it is the height of arrogance.

Likewise, unforgiveness of others keeps us from enjoying relationship with the One who forgives us.

#6 is that we really aren’t willing to accept the changes that healing will bring.

Get this – if you’re sick, you’ve got rest, sympathy, less responsibility… if you’re well, you’ve got work, expectations to fulfill, and more responsibility.

If you’re sick with a cold, you might not REALLY want instantaneous healing because you surely could use a day off to sit and watch soap operas and pamper yourself.

If you’ve been sick for a very long time, as I was, you might not REALLY want instantaneous healing because you’d very suddenly be ushered back into the “real” world where people have the right to expect things of you because you’re suddenly capable of doing those things.

Don’t believe it’s a big adjustment? I’ll talk about that sometime. It was HUGE. And I think that those factors may keep people from being healed. They’ve grown comfortable, in a way (sort of like an abused spouse?) with the status quo and are afraid of changing it.

That’s NOT to say they’re lazy and want to stay sick so they can stay lazy. I’ve yet to meet a person like that. But I’ve also yet to meet someone who doesn’t need to make themselves ready in their hearts for these changes. I’ve definitely met a few who weren’t willing to accept them, and thus have not been healed.

I also know some non-Christians who I think were not healed because they acknowledged before prayer that they were not ready to accept Jesus, and if He healed them they’d HAVE to accept He’s real, and they did not want to face that possibility.

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I’m sure that this isn’t every reason why a person is not healed – but it does offer some answers that aren’t immediately connected to “faith”.

Sorry this is “short” – I may come back, flesh it out, add Scripture when I’ve got time to look it up. Right now I need to finish laundry, take out the trash and the dog, and shower and dress as we’ve got a church member in hospital and I need to go up there this morning.